The Hunting of Ed Snowden - the evolving power-play

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Re: The Hunting of Ed Snowden - the evolving power-play

Postby kirtu » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:08 am

All you have to do to protect your data is to encrypt it (in fact that is actually the only thing you can do). PGP Encryption can probably not be broken quickly (certainly not by regular cops and probably not by the NSA short of brute force methods which would be a waste of time for most people's data). I suggested this to friends over 20 years ago but they did not want to implement it on their machines (Snowden in fact tried to get the Guardian reporter to do this but failed). The issue is naturally that once the data is decrypted at the other end, if the destination is a public entity (like a public forum) then it's clearly readable. Also right now, most boards and information utilities did not build in encrypted channels so that would have to be added (it's trivial, except that that functionality can then only be accessed in the US because encryption is classified as a munition [or used to be]). Even the Germans haven't done this. Everyone has opted for convenience over personal security.

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Re: The Hunting of Ed Snowden - the evolving power-play

Postby Nemo » Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:29 am

PGP has been decrypted in real time since the last century. Not by Prism though. My problem with Prism is that it is bargain basement back doors that hundreds of thousands of people can access. I liked it prohibitively expensive with the NSA as a very stingy gatekeeper. This was never meant for conventional law enforcement. When that line is crossed, and it has been, it inevitably becomes quite evil.

Go old school pen and paper my friend, all electronic communications are monitored. Since Snowden was in Russia they have started buying typewriters again.
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Re: The Hunting of Ed Snowden - the evolving power-play

Postby Indrajala » Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:50 am

Nemo wrote:Go old school pen and paper my friend, all electronic communications are monitored. Since Snowden was in Russia they have started buying typewriters again.


There is something to be said about how you sacrifice security for efficiency.

The same goes for a lot of things. Efficiency is bought with complexity, but complexity is fragile.

I mean think how much we rely on GPS nowadays. Could a bomber squadron hit any targets if the satellites were taken out either directly or through a hacking attack?
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Re: The Hunting of Ed Snowden - the evolving power-play

Postby kirtu » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:29 am

Nemo wrote:PGP has been decrypted in real time since the last century.


What? No way (or almost no way)!* Early PGP perhaps but they look like they have moved to RSA (for casual readers, RSA is more or less a practically unbreakable encryption scheme). It's true that RSA with small keys have been broken in demos but not real messages with reasonable keys.

Kirt

*about 1995 -a message with a 384 bit key was cracked. This took months and tremendous computing resources for the time (resources easily at NSA's disposal). But PGP also recommends using 768 bit keys at minimum now. Thes complexity of these problems scales exponentially and computing power merely doubles every 1-2 years (Moore's Law) so even if they haven't gone to RSA, one can easily select a key length that is simply out of reach now and into the near future (20 years - unless quantum computing really, really works).
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Re: The Hunting of Ed Snowden - the evolving power-play

Postby kirtu » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:51 am

Indrajala wrote:I mean think how much we rely on GPS nowadays. Could a bomber squadron hit any targets if the satellites were taken out either directly or through a hacking attack?


Sure. Experienced (and that is the key) US, NATO and Russian pilots are not tech dependent and can find their way in the dark.

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Re: The Hunting of Ed Snowden - the evolving power-play

Postby Indrajala » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:08 am

kirtu wrote:Sure. Experienced (and that is the key) US, NATO and Russian pilots are not tech dependent and can find their way in the dark.

Kirt


Are navies around the world able to navigate still without the use of GPS, I wonder?
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Re: The Hunting of Ed Snowden - the evolving power-play

Postby kirtu » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:35 am

Indrajala wrote:
kirtu wrote:Sure. Experienced (and that is the key) US, NATO and Russian pilots are not tech dependent and can find their way in the dark.

Kirt


Are navies around the world able to navigate still without the use of GPS, I wonder?


That, unfortunately, is a good question. Submariners can. Surface ships might be challenged.

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Re: The Hunting of Ed Snowden - the evolving power-play

Postby Ramon1920 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:01 am

Encrypted transmission doesn't work at all when everything is recorded.

The only thing you can do in reality is buy a used laptop with cash and go to an internet cafe or something with no surveillance. I think they've started making internet cafe's illegal on the basis that some people gamble online at them. I think that's the case in Florida right now at least.

Having a separate pc that is not connected to the internet is great for political work. Or you can run a OS off a flash drive and wipe it after you're done. I suggest Darik's boot and nuke, you may have to unplug things from the motherboard though, like SD card readers, also unplug printers and stuff like that because it causes the program to stop from drive reading errors. Generally speaking you should wipe your drive and reinstall the OS twice a year, or so I've been told.

I use an encrypted container for my personal info and business documents. The key is relatively short and not secure at all in that sense, but I'm betting that the week it would take to move a couple hundred gb through my slow internet connection would give me time to realize what's going on and make what had been collected so far useless.

P.S. your cell phones might be being tracked on a regular basis. For whatever reason mine is being tracked through the emergency response's tracking system, it lights up every couple of hours as it receives and transmits. So if you're going to some sort of political rally, leave your phone at home. And take public transportation. It's not just the FBI spying on political groups, there's also a group called the Anti-Defamation League that spies on political groups it considers a threat. They photograph license plates and then get people in the police or DMV to run them to get people's names and addresses so they can intimidate them into silence. I'm sure there's other non gov spy groups in the USA also, I'm just used to being targeted for speaking out against Israeli corruption.
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Re: The Hunting of Ed Snowden - the evolving power-play

Postby kirtu » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:58 pm

Ramon1920 wrote:Encrypted transmission doesn't work at all when everything is recorded.
...
Having a separate pc that is not connected to the internet is great for political work.


Encrypted transmission does work so I have no idea what you mean. The problem is that next to no one else is using encryption and that encrypted channels with forums have not been established so transmission necessarily takes place in plaintext.

Minimizing transmission time on the Internet is a great approach and is what Stallman has been doing for at least 20 years using burst transmission to upload and download things (an possibly on a separate dedicated machine).

The rest seems a little too much for me. PGP tools have been extended so that you can protect your entire machine and not just encrypt the hard drive or disk sectors (meaning that memory is apparently encrypted as well). That might slow Windows down or you might need an older version of Windows but with Linux it should be fine.

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Re: The Hunting of Ed Snowden - the evolving power-play

Postby Dan74 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:18 am

Do you gents think the Government is going to be spying on you and there are people somewhere reading your private communications?
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Re: The Hunting of Ed Snowden - the evolving power-play

Postby Ramon1920 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:27 am

Yes, because I'm involved with a political group that seeks to get the public involved with foreign policy.

Like policy congress has to dump billions of tax payer dollars into Israel every year, which is then given back to the USA (because Israel is a well off country that doesn't need aid) in the form of loans, which then accrues significant interest. http://ifamericansknew.org/stats/cost_of_israel.html

The FBI, CIA, NSA, etc. considers Israel America's closest ally, thus making political groups that would see that relationship end a "National Security Threat" even though we're all Americans just trying to end this parasitic relationship our country has with "Nazi" Israel.
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Re: The Hunting of Ed Snowden - the evolving power-play

Postby Nemo » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:49 am

KIrtu; PGP was acquired by Network Associates in the 90's. Let's say NA has a very close relationship with the military and the NSA. It's back doored, as are most encryption systems. Real time decryption over the wire with affordable kit is decades old news. I would not think any encryption would be effective. Even randomly generated 3-D Baker maps. Conventional law enforcement may be stumped until they find an excuse to say you are a national security threat and submit it for decryption.

Indrajala; As a former soldier I can find my target in pitch blackness with only a compass. We need no electronics whatsoever. I prefer a good night vision monocular, but can do fine without it.

Dan74; Now that the security state is built all those people need work. They need threats to defend against. The power elites are insane. Destroying the environment and starting pointless wars of aggression. Crushing the middle class and living like the empire is burning around them. If people keep pointing this out with high unemployment and a broken economy there will be civil unrest. Organizers will need to be rounded up and outspoken people silenced. Prism is not about terrorists. Prism is a bargain system that is designed for conventional law enforcement. Terrorists do not use Hotmail or Facebook but angry citizens organizing politically do. That is why right wing libertarian Snowden is throwing his life away.

BTW the Kochs have bought into some companies that collect info on all downloads an IP makes on peer to peer networks. Even though the courts are stopping prosecutions of such infringements. Why would they want all that data? Private data is even more scary. Roughly 70% is outsourced in the US now. Companies like Booz Allen have many corporate clients that they sell their expertise to to other than the US government.
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Re: The Hunting of Ed Snowden - the evolving power-play

Postby Dan74 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:46 pm

Could we have some facts? Which private citizens have been "rounded up and silenced" over their peaceful political activity?

Frankly, fellas, a lot of the above reads like paranoia, but maybe this is my antipodean ignorance...
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Re: The Hunting of Ed Snowden - the evolving power-play

Postby Sönam » Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:32 pm

taratata ... the game of war :guns: :rolling: :jedi:

:popcorn:
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By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
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Re: The Hunting of Ed Snowden - the evolving power-play

Postby Dan74 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:17 pm

withdrawn...

Sönam wrote:taratata ... the game of war :guns: :rolling: :jedi:

:popcorn:


A game not worth the candle.
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Re: The Hunting of Ed Snowden - the evolving power-play

Postby Nemo » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:47 pm

Dan74 wrote:Could we have some facts? Which private citizens have been "rounded up and silenced" over their peaceful political activity?

Frankly, fellas, a lot of the above reads like paranoia, but maybe this is my antipodean ignorance...


I was in the military. it is not paranoia. In my town a few dozen were rounded up on security certificates. Basically some spook decided these people were bad so they go to jail indefinitely. No trial, no family visits, no legal interventions, often not even an admission they are in detention. One was a 76 year old author from Egypt. He wrote inflammatory books about getting rid of the military dictatorship and kicking out the colonialists. Another good example was an audio engineer who disappeared after customs found blueprints of concert halls with blast waves coming out of where the speakers probably should have been. Did I mention he was brown? He was adopted as a baby by the most white bread family imaginable and knew nothing about Islam.

Throw in the unprovoked violence perpetrated on the Occupy movement. Kettling, arbitrary detention, pepper spray, tear gas and baton use on ordinary citizens. Many have nightmares now. Normal people can't take that kind of abuse without becoming fearful.

Once outside the borders flying killer robots come to kill you and your entire family. Often the target's only crime is speaking about attacking the homeland on the internet. That is enough to make murdering children acceptable collateral damage. If murdering children is legal there is no justice.

Does this count as "rounded up and silenced"?
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Re: The Hunting of Ed Snowden - the evolving power-play

Postby Suzan223Pian » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:29 am

As we all know,While the mobile phone brings great conveniences to people, it also raises new challenge on the security of confidential work. In recent years, the wiretap, cheating in examination, medical negligence and gas station explosion with mobile phone occurred and it has aroused great concern of the society. Maybe it's one of the reasons that promoted the appearance of mobile signal jammer. You may be watching a nice movie or enjoying your nap when you get free for sometime. Still you have chances of getting disturbed with your most loved ones and close friend chatting near you on the cell phone. At such hours, if you really care for your free time then you need to buy a mobile signal jammer.
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Re: The Hunting of Ed Snowden - the evolving power-play

Postby Dan74 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:46 am

Thank you, Suzanne. I think I will go and buy that signal jammer and maybe they will throw in the internet jammer too. And while I am at it, order some memory pills because I thought that Canada was that big cold country north of the US, kind a mild mannered Americans with moose and those great waterfalls as well as those French-speakers. But the fellow above seems to be describing Iraq or at least Sri Lanka. I'm very confused. :crazy:
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Re: The Hunting of Ed Snowden - the evolving power-play

Postby Kim O'Hara » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:54 pm

Dan74 wrote:Thank you, Suzanne. I think I will go and buy that signal jammer and maybe they will throw in the internet jammer too. And while I am at it, order some memory pills because I thought that Canada was that big cold country north of the US, kind a mild mannered Americans with moose and those great waterfalls as well as those French-speakers. But the fellow above seems to be describing Iraq or at least Sri Lanka. I'm very confused. :crazy:

Coming in very late here, Dan ... Canada is indeed that big country north of the US but it has had a very right-wing government for a few years now (sorta like our new one but don't get me started on that).
Toss in the fact that a lot of the nasty stuff is cross-border. If the US is perfectly okay with killing people by drone-strike in countries it is not even at war with, as it is, then I think we can assume that the non-lethal stuff is even more pervasive.
Toss in the huge increase in computing capacity. Someone here (IIRC) mentioned how "they" :spy: were able to identify the Boston bombers from video footage within a day or two, and the implications for own own privacy, but we have an example much closer to home: a woman was walking down a suburban Melbourne street one evening a few months ago and after she was attacked, police strung together footage of her last fifteen minutes from surveillance cameras in the shops she passed.
Toss in the fact that retailers are now using, or planning to, GPS signals from customers' phones to see which parts of the store attract their attention and encourage them to buy. :rolleye:

Paranoid? Me? No, but only because I don't do stuff that I need to hide.

:namaste:
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Re: The Hunting of Ed Snowden - the evolving power-play

Postby Dan74 » Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:17 am

Kim, where in what you said is the evidence that governments (of either the three countries you mention) arrests its citizens and locks them up without trial? If there is, I'd really like to see it.
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