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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:42 am 
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Ramon1920, Thanks I've never come across this information before.....if true it's shocking!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:18 am 
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greentara wrote:
Ramon1920, Thanks I've never come across this information before.....if true it's shocking!

Maybe the shocking thing is that people entertain the possibility that it is real...

Leaky wiki is a parody. Like the Onion.

I am not interested in bashing the US. In fact it is a little disappointing to see intelligent people say things like "The thing is is that China is no better than the US in this respect." The US still has a great deal of freedom, a lot more than China or Russia. We know what happens to Russians who leak info to the West http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvinenko or expose corruption http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/11/19414146-shameful-moment-russia-convicts-dead-whistle-blower-of-tax-evasion.

But someone wise once said that the price of liberty is eternal vigilance.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:44 am 
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:rolling:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:00 am 
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On a more serious note, the FBI are actually hunting down political threats and killing them.

There is a population surge and the youths without a livelihood will start a revolution if social sciences are capable of predicting anything. That is likely why there was a push to limit firearms in the country suddenly.

We all know it's coming. Millions without jobs and most of the people with jobs living pay check to pay check at the mercy of Walmart and similar corporations. Wages show almost no sign of increase while necessities skyrocket. Every major corporation has people planted in it to absorb profits while the people that actually invested earn little more than the fluctuations in speculation on the stock market. Profiteers have weaseled their way into every market and are busy creating new ones like the privatization of public education and mandatory health insurance, as if their scam to artificially inflate non insured health costs to keep people not using their insurance from doctors wasn't bad enough.

Martin Luther King's movement didn't really take off until he was killed and his followers rioted. Rioting is probably the only real option for Americans to take back their gov from the secret FISA court and it's 10/11 Republican judges. http://www.aclu.org/support-oversight-secret-fisa-court


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:15 am 
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Ramon1920 wrote:
On a more serious note, the FBI are actually hunting down political threats and killing them.

There is a population surge and the youths without a livelihood will start a revolution if social sciences are capable of predicting anything. That is likely why there was a push to limit firearms in the country suddenly.

We all know it's coming. Millions without jobs and most of the people with jobs living pay check to pay check at the mercy of Walmart and similar corporations. Wages show almost no sign of increase while necessities skyrocket. Every major corporation has people planted in it to absorb profits while the people that actually invested earn little more than the fluctuations in speculation on the stock market. Profiteers have weaseled their way into every market and are busy creating new ones like the privatization of public education and mandatory health insurance, as if their scam to artificially inflate non insured health costs to keep people not using their insurance from doctors wasn't bad enough.

Martin Luther King's movement didn't really take off until he was killed and his followers rioted. Rioting is probably the only real option for Americans to take back their gov from the secret FISA court and it's 10/11 Republican judges. http://www.aclu.org/support-oversight-secret-fisa-court


That was more serious?

Oy, gevalt! Image


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:02 am 
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As it turns out, Snowden is a right wing anti-Obama libertarian.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013 ... ecame-one/

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:39 am 
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Malcolm wrote:
As it turns out, Snowden is a right wing anti-Obama libertarian.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013 ... ecame-one/


Malcolm,

I fail to understand why his character needs to be put on trial and feel a bit odd peering into these 4-5 year-old exchanges. Geez, you and I have said enough on the interwebs that I suspect could be stitched together into a not-too-flattering portrait. As for his politics, I honestly don't care.

Me, I like what Jimmy Carter said:

Quote:
"He's obviously violated the laws of America, for which he's responsible, but I think the invasion of human rights and American privacy has gone too far. I think that the secrecy that has been surrounding this invasion of privacy has been excessive, so I think that the bringing of it to the public notice has probably been, in the long term, beneficial..."


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:10 am 
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The rich and powerful don't care for the welfare of the common man. Out of the humdrum of anonymity comes Snowden and being privy to this mass surveillance suddenly realized that it's gone too far.
It reminds me of old detective novals where letters were steamed open by the bad guys. Well I'm sure I know who the bad guys are now!


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:40 pm 
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I don't know what this story says about the motives of the rich and powerful, NSA may well be run by well-intentioned people. I just wouldn't be comfortable living in the dark about what these "well-intentioned people" are doing, who has access to private info, how much oversight there is, etc etc. All this needs careful discussion.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:07 pm 
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[quote="Dan74"]

I fail to understand why his character needs to be put on trial and feel a bit odd peering into these 4-5 year-old exchanges./quote]

It speaks to his motives.

I don't disagree with what Snowden did, BTW. And I think the reaction by the US Gvt. is a bit over the top, but I also, from the beginning, have found something pretty off about the whole affair.

M

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:53 pm 
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Democrat, republican: illusions of choice. Distract people with largely irrelevant things like gay marriage and george zimmerman.

Our society has been completely taken over. The news is just a propaganda reel now. It's hard to feel justified taking action against private corporations that have the right to publish whatever propaganda they choose, but it needs to be done for the good of society.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/has ... 14329.html
http://gawker.com/5975410/reddit-cofoun ... cide-at-26

Personally I can't watch the news on tv anymore, they show nothing relevant to me and it bothers me that they never talk about the important things going on in the world. Every time something very important happens that demands the attention of Americans, the news stations focus their coverage on something that get's people angry and distracted. Like the George Zimmerman trial right now.

Russia and the US/Israel are battling a proxy war over an oil pipe. The Egyptian people and the US/Israel are battling over who controls Egypt. Liars are being exposed in Congress.

The proof that our society has been taken over is clear from the nonsensical fictions being espoused as true by our media and gov.

9/11 being one of the most obvious. It's so ludicrous I can't imagine any sane person buying into it.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:32 pm 
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While some may believe that Snowden may have betrayed the state, the actions of the state have definately betrayed the people.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:41 am 
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We should give this group of bad people a name. And then make a list of who exactly they are.

How about, "the cronies"? It gives them a name everyone can pronounce I think, and accurately describes how they're pulling this stuff off.

Here's a start at naming them all:

Barclays plc

Capital Group Companies Inc

FMR Corporation

AXA

State Street Corporation

JP Morgan Chase & Co

Legal & General Group plc

Vanguard Group Inc

UBS AG

Merrill Lynch & Co Inc

Wellington Management Co LLP

Deutsche Bank AG

Franklin Resources Inc

Credit Suisse Group

Walton Enterprises LLC

Bank of New York Mellon Corp

Natixis

Goldman Sachs Group Inc

T Rowe Price Group Inc

Legg Mason Inc

Morgan Stanley

Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group Inc

Northern Trust Corporation

Société Générale

Bank of America Corporation

Lloyds TSB Group plc

Invesco plc

Allianz SE 29. TIAA

Old Mutual Public Limited Company

Aviva plc

Schroders plc

Dodge & Cox

Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc*

Sun Life Financial Inc

Standard Life plc

CNCE

Nomura Holdings Inc

The Depository Trust Company

Massachusetts Mutual Life Insurance

ING Groep NV

Brandes Investment Partners LP

Unicredito Italiano SPA

Deposit Insurance Corporation of Japan

Vereniging Aegon

BNP Paribas

Affiliated Managers Group Inc

Resona Holdings Inc

Capital Group International Inc

China Petrochemical Group Company

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/2 ... -The-World


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:04 am 
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OK, you don't like big banks, many people don't like big banks, but what has it got to do with the thread's topic, Ramon?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:47 pm 
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Hi Dan74, see my reply to Ramon here:

viewtopic.php?f=110&t=13443&p=175891#p175891

And:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/ne ... t-20130425

Even the mainstream is noticing the corruption^; which either means that ordinary/regular people are starting to wake up a little, or that 'they' have already 'won' and are only rubbing it in everyone's faces now. Perhaps it's the former; because it's not over 'til it's over. Also, anything from a mainstream source like Rollingstone is likely only the tip of the iceberg....


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:43 pm 
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It is people that are manipulating the elections, the media, the courts, law enforcement, the financial market, world politics, and these special interest groups that are funded solely to stop anti-corruption groups from gaining any power to correct things. Despite our tendency to categorize people into separate independent groups that don't coordinate, i.e. you're a bankster and you're a corrupt politician, people do coordinate. What you're seeing in the world is people coordinating with each other across different sectors as a ruling class without the danger of being targeted by revolutions because of firmly designating themselves as a ruling class.

The libertarians and what not became too much under the control of the peasants, the public was becoming too involved and started challenging the Republicans and Democratic cronies and so they've been smeared and targeted. It doesn't have anything to do with party affiliation, the cronies just don't want the masses to get involved with the politics of their country except through the front of the 2 main parties where they have no power to do anything meaningful.

So, what do these corporations have to do with Ed Snowden? They people vacuuming up the wealth of the world through corporate positions are the same ones hunting him down, by proxy of course. The idea that the NSA exists to stop muslims from attacking the USA is just a front, it was established before 9/11. It's a way to detect anti-corruption groups and to give an edge to the cronies.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-1 ... firms.html


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:18 pm 
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Ramon1920 wrote:
The idea that the NSA exists to stop muslims from attacking the USA is just a front, it was established before 9/11. It's a way to detect anti-corruption groups and to give an edge to the cronies.


You are misinformed about the National Security Agency (NSA). It has been in existence since at least the 1960's, probably coming into existence in the 50's. It was considered a semi-secret agency through about 1980 - government officials actually disavowed knowledge of it's existence (having grow up partly in Laurel, MD - any kid in the 70's from there could have taken you to it's front door by Ft. Meade -it's employees were all given the same cover story so when you met someone who gave you that story you knew they were new employees at the NSA). My undergrad degree is in mathematics and all or almost all of my math professors in college were former employees of the NSA because NSA's main activity from the start of the Cold War was foreign data gathering and analysis (that is their main charter). In most cases this meant code breaking and almost all applied (and even many theoretical) mathematicians of the period were involved in code breaking or in activities supporting that (cutting edge matrix inversion for the 60's for example).

The NSA has nothing to do with stopping foreign terrorism per se but under their chief mandate they hose up all foreign data of interest (an interesting phrase) and begin the process of analyzing it (at which point all of their activity goes dark - however they themselves do not do the analysis - at least not through the 70's - they were more a technical agency). Now of course the problem is that they have hosed up not just foreign data of interest but apparently everyone's data and have justified this because most (or many anyway) data network traffic flows through US controlled servers at some point (although they have the mandate to legally spy on non-US controlled servers and thus that data - as long as US citizen's data isn't involved - a pesky detail that they have now officially sidestepped). More details on exactly their justification would be a good thing. But that may not be necessary. It turns out that many tech companies acquiesced to requests for data and did so regularly.

Kirt

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:58 pm 
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That's interesting Kirtu. Information about what they actually do is not really accessible so what you've said is useful.

Here's an update on that Hastings guy that was killed for investigating the cronies, his body has been cremated to cover up evidence.
http://www.infowars.com/report-michael- ... ys-wishes/


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:12 pm 
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The hunting of Edward Snowden is a news story that allows the media to avoid the fact that, from the outset, nearly 75% of USA's citizens were opposed to NSA/FBI spying on them. The popularly touted survey numbers that showed a 50/50 split never asked the question directly, but the Reuters study did. New surveys are bolstering Reuters original numbers as more accurate. Now that over 500,000 signatures have been delivered to congress and the public outcry is starting to look like its going to affect some fund-raising and elections, congress is slowly going through the motions of admitting they know the intelligence community lied under oath. And lastly, the story is resurfacing in the media, that congress is not finished dealing with reforming the laws involved. The media is engaged in a tricky game to try to protect their corporate partners who are implicated in this scandal.

It's not just a fourth amendment issue but a first amendment issue as well. The United States of America is the one country in the world which enshrines free speech an an inalienable right, and the mere suggestion that the government is engaged in intimidating and coercing the public in regards to it can and will have political repercussions. But who can predict which way the spin doctors will cause it to go? Striking down the spying laws or police state?

- hansen -


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:40 am 
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The spying thing gained immeasurable controversy when Microsoft, Google, Yahoo, etc. became implicated. Suddenly all their products with their back doors are all boycott by anyone who reads anything online.

I will never purchase another microsoft product ever, nor will I use google directly. A billion dollar corporation died because of this, another is on the verge of being blamed for their complicity. Political careers will end over this, and cronies will be dragged into the spot light. White collar crimes don't go punished unless the victim is a powerful corporation.

Linux/GNU/SLAX
These are alternatives to windows and Mac OS. You can also pirate Windows if you have to use it for something, it won't save you from the spyware on it though I imagine. I bet Bill Gates is furious.


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