How long will religious freedom last?

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How long will religious freedom last?

Postby Ramon1920 » Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:23 am

I like the idea of future generations practicing Buddhism, but there seems to be a resurgence of people pushing Abrahamic religions in the media and gov, who knows how much longer until Buddhists are openly persecuted in Western countries. Lately it has been the Zionists with American Christian support, ganging up against the Muslims, religious identity being used by the Zionists to get American's support in Israel's crusade to retake the holy land. If Buddhism continues to grow then it will be seen as undermining American support of the Zionist agenda, or some other agenda. I think this time when people can practice religion freely in the USA will come to an end. I think we should try to get all our teachings and empowerments in order in the next 10 years in case cronies decide to put Buddhism on the chopping block in their social engineering project
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Re: How long will religious freedom last?

Postby Jikan » Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:43 am

Would you please explain how the alliance of a fringe religious movement in the US with Zionism has you concerned about the future of religious pluralism in the US? Maybe some evidence of some kind? I'm having a hard time imagining the connection.

If anything, it seems as though religious affiliation across the board is declining generation by generation...

http://www.pewforum.org/unaffiliated/no ... -rise.aspx

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Re: How long will religious freedom last?

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:45 am

Ramon1920 wrote:I like the idea of future generations practicing Buddhism, but there seems to be a resurgence of people pushing Abrahamic religions in the media and gov, who knows how much longer until Buddhists are openly persecuted in Western countries. Lately it has been the Zionists with American Christian support, ganging up against the Muslims, religious identity being used by the Zionists to get American's support in Israel's crusade to retake the holy land. If Buddhism continues to grow then it will be seen as undermining American support of the Zionist agenda, or some other agenda. I think this time when people can practice religion freely in the USA will come to an end. I think we should try to get all our teachings and empowerments in order in the next 10 years in case cronies decide to put Buddhism on the chopping block in their social engineering project


What resurgence? I don't see that propagating Abrahamic religions has ever slowed down.
America's support of Israel politically has nothing to do with religious freedom.
All I see here is a weak attempt at trying to scare Buddhists into thinking they are under some kind of threat.
Are you sure that your conspiracy theory isn't anti-judaism disguised as anti-zionism?

From your statements, it doesn't seem that empowerments are what you need,
But you should definitely get more teachings, and study them, and as you suggest,
the sooner the better.
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Re: How long will religious freedom last?

Postby zerwe » Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:51 am

Put an end to paranoia. The only freedom we need to be concerned with is within our own minds.

Shaun :namaste:
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Re: How long will religious freedom last?

Postby lobster » Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:12 pm

zerwe wrote:Put an end to paranoia.


Good plan :twothumbsup:

We can focus on practice and the world, our world, improves :thumbsup:
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Re: How long will religious freedom last?

Postby Madeliaette » Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:03 pm

Part of the Bodhisattva attitude, if i am correct, is to wish to assist everyone even if we ALONE do so.... so, as stated above, I think we should all work on our own practice to keep Buddhism going.
Maybe there will be less emphasis on Buddhism for a while, or it may be made unpopular to practice, but providing there are some of us practicing sincerely, surely the practices will not die out completely....?
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Re: How long will religious freedom last?

Postby black_tea » Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:52 pm

As a person of Jewish heritage your language really pains me, because it is the sort of thing you typically hear from hate groups. Look, Jews don't missionize, and tend to take issues such as religious freedom very seriously. Christianity is hardly monolithic -- yes there are well organized right wing types that aggressively push their own agenda, however, there are many other Christians who are not like that at all. The US is really an incredibly diverse country -- it may have pockets that tend to be more this or that, but taken as a whole that's not in any danger of changing. If anything there are more opportunities than ever to learn about Buddhism in the US. So please take a step back, better inform yourself and stop trying to create scapegoats over a nonexistant issue.
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Re: How long will religious freedom last?

Postby Ramon1920 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:12 am

I am ethnically Jewish first of all, and ISRAEL DOES NOT REPRESENT ME!

I've been noticing my family and friends getting sucked into Pro Israel groups. I care about them, but some of my friends have been a part of ADL stalking people and spying for Israel. It's not to do with Judaism and it's not just Jewish getting involved in this, it's American Christians, Jews, Messianic Jews, and Atheists. There's been this idea being pushed that you should hate Muslims and support Israel because god gave the Jews that land, so it's okay that Israel does all this terrible stuff and terrorizes people all over the world and especially in the USA. You guys will probably doubt that there are Zionist terrorists in the USA,.. there definitely are, if you want to meet them just go to a major college and start telling people about something like the Sabra and Shatila massacre or how many palestinians were killed by their occupiers in the various intifadas, or you could just google Jewish Defense League to see some info about one of the most active terrorist groups in the USA ever. Anyways, the Zionist terrorism is still going on, it's simply just not mentioned in the media as related in any way to Israel.

so here's my examples,
People pushing religion to garner support for nazi Israel, I don't expect you all to know just how influential Benny Hinn is in the USA, but he is.
http://www.bennyhinn.org/articles/9168/ ... -holy-land
Israeli terrorists not associated with Israel in the media
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/01/nyre ... .html?_r=0
Zionist Terrorist groups
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Defense_League
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Re: How long will religious freedom last?

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:49 am

Looking at some of your other posts,
the issue of hijacking Buddhism seems to
concern you a lot.

Try not to worry about it too much.
.
.
.
Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.
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Re: How long will religious freedom last?

Postby zerwe » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:43 am

Ramon1920 wrote:I am ethnically Jewish first of all, and ISRAEL DOES NOT REPRESENT ME!

I've been noticing my family and friends getting sucked into Pro Israel groups. I care about them, but some of my friends have been a part of ADL stalking people and spying for Israel. It's not to do with Judaism and it's not just Jewish getting involved in this, it's American Christians, Jews, Messianic Jews, and Atheists. There's been this idea being pushed that you should hate Muslims and support Israel because god gave the Jews that land, so it's okay that Israel does all this terrible stuff and terrorizes people all over the world and especially in the USA. You guys will probably doubt that there are Zionist terrorists in the USA,.. there definitely are, if you want to meet them just go to a major college and start telling people about something like the Sabra and Shatila massacre or how many palestinians were killed by their occupiers in the various intifadas, or you could just google Jewish Defense League to see some info about one of the most active terrorist groups in the USA ever. Anyways, the Zionist terrorism is still going on, it's simply just not mentioned in the media as related in any way to Israel.

so here's my examples,
People pushing religion to garner support for nazi Israel, I don't expect you all to know just how influential Benny Hinn is in the USA, but he is.
http://www.bennyhinn.org/articles/9168/ ... -holy-land
Israeli terrorists not associated with Israel in the media
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/01/nyre ... .html?_r=0
Zionist Terrorist groups
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Defense_League


Look, I am ethnically German and I have had very frank and open discussions about this in the past with very close friends of mine who identify themselves as being Jewish.
Today, I should not post what my stance or opinion was, because we should not see negativity at all, we are all suffering.
If we must look at, or feel compelled to speak out about injustice, we must
do so from the point of view of compassion, because we are all suffering.

Shaun :namaste:
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Re: How long will religious freedom last?

Postby greentara » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:54 am

Ramon1920,
Wow, you've really got a barrow to push!
The middle east is a quagmire of contradictions and I'm not getting into who's right and who's wrong. A quick glance reveals that Sunni and shi'a have trouble getting along and are not kind to other religious minorities.... in addition they oppress women.
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Re: How long will religious freedom last?

Postby corrine » Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:27 pm

As a citizen of the United States of America, I cannot imagine any religion being persecuted in this day and age simply because we love to mix it up. That is, whenever one group starts to dominate we automatically take another side, any side. We tend to not allow any group to control, whether or not we agree with them. Yes, in the past and during war time, particularly during WWII, paranoia allowed us to isolate particular groups, but today we are far too diverse. I count among my personal friends, fundamentalist christians, muslims, a hindu, catholics and one jewish woman. We rarely discuss religion because it ends up in a free for all. Same reason we do not discuss politics. We have all decided to live and let live even though some of us just know that we are right.

I find this approach to diversity healthy and makes me fear much less than I used to. I saw the bigotry that comes from everyone adhering to a particular religion or political party. And, as a woman, I saw sexism in all of its uglier forms. Today, though there is always that element lurking in the corners, it is no longer acceptable and when it raises its ugly head, many will speak up to say loudly that it is not acceptable. Just last week one of my colleagues chose to diss mexicans, blaming them for all of our financial ills. Most of us immediately told her that her views, which she is entitled to under our belief system, were completely unacceptable to the rest of us.

I personally believe that everyone, in his or her own home, has the right to their views and their behavior, so long as we are speaking of competent, non coerced adults, but when she or he steps into the public venue, than hate speech or behavior will not be tolerated.

I cannot imagine fundamentalist christians controlling anything where I live, which is in california. I tolerate them, regardless of their views, because I believe that everyone is entitled to believe any silly thing they wish, but I see them as having no influence whatsoever on the rational people in the public sector in which I work.

I also tolerate those who believe in santa clause and the easter bunny.

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Re: How long will religious freedom last?

Postby Ramon1920 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:06 pm

You can hurt someone because they oppose you and never mention why you're hurting them. You can destroy businesses, places of worship, organizations, and individuals because they threaten your interests. Even right now my aunt's husband is being drawn into a coalition of Pro-Israel lawyers. That's what's going on right now in the USA. Buddhists haven't, as far as I know, taken a widespread stance on Israel, so they haven't been targeted. But Churches, companies, and people have been. The way it works is this, they mess up something for you, you can deal with them through legalities or just frivolous lawsuits to bankrupt them, you can get a friend in a position of authority to revoke licenses they hold, you can get your group or an associated group to terrorize them or do other non legal things like planting drugs or whatever.

In the case of Israel with US backing, this is another Holocaust, I don't want to be remembered as one of the people that said nothing because they were just afraid of getting attacked by Pro Israel thugs. Hamas and Hezbollah were created after horrendous massacres and oppression by Israel, they're still terrorists, but they're trying to save the Palestinians from complete annihilation by Israel with America's support.
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Re: How long will religious freedom last?

Postby greentara » Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:34 am

Ramon1920, Of course the palestinian issue is a problem. Why pick on just one? As we speak there is a battle for souls right through Africa, Islam verses Christianity. In Christian areas churches are springing up like mushrooms and in Moslem areas Islam is battling for supremacy and fundamentalism is spreading. There are serious problems right around the globe. A single example will suffice: Cleric Sheikh Abdullah Daoud of Saudi Arabia has suggested the infant females as young as a few months old, should wear headscarfs and veils “for their own protection” . Because he claims, sexual molestation of female babies in increasing in the kingdom (one of the wealthiest countries on the planet).
While others in Saudi Arabia have denounced this as irrational, many in the country now veil and cover the heads of female infants.
Still this is nothing to do with Buddhism. I don't believe Buddhism is threatened in any way and religious freedom persists in America and the west.
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Re: How long will religious freedom last?

Postby Ramon1920 » Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:48 pm

Greentara, the reason it matters in general is because Americans are funding and supporting this Israeli crusade, loosing American support would be the end of Israel basically, Israeli's are afraid they'll lose their home, religious pro Israel people are afraid of the world ending or something, atheists are afraid Islam will take over, it is really important to these people to kill off opposition, and that means religious and speech freedoms have to be disregarded. Sometimes even I think, "Maybe I should just look the other way so Islam is countered".

In specific, it matters to Buddhists because eventually we as a group will realize something bad is going on, oppose it, and then become a target. It might not be regarding Israel that Buddhists mobilize and have to be suppressed, it could be about some government policy or something else.

From listening to the religious extremists in my circle of family and friends that Buddhism is held in high regard in general, and not a threat right now. I just am skeptical this good favor will last and don't want to be caught in a situation where I can't get teachings I need or practice openly without being silently terrorized with a corrupt police force refusing to even file a biased report.
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