Eckhart Tolle on christmas

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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby lowlydog » Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:07 pm

Watch this, http://youtu.be/4U2Q2puCtqQ

I hope this is helpful. :smile:
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:36 pm

I got more important things to do right now, like wash the dishes! ;)
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:53 pm

lowlydog wrote:Hey Greg,

There is a higher reality beyond body and mind, which is called God by religions. Eckhart Tolle prefers not to use the word ‘God’ because the word is misused for years and the moment we start with that word, we start with a bias or pre-judgements.

He calls this higher reality as ‘Being’. Being is our true nature beyond the body and mind. Because it is beyond the mind, we can not understand the Being state using mind and logic. One has to experience it. Being is an eternal state, with stillness and peace, inside us.


Calling higher reality "being" is essentialism or eternalism. Dharma is supposed to be a middle way between nihilism and eternalism, you can believe the above, plenty of people do. Where do you see the connection between the above quotes and Dharma though?

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .nymo.html

For starters read that - it's not long- and think about the implications regarding this claim of "Being" as the highest reality.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby martin123 » Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:20 pm

Johnny
Dangerous wrote:
lowlydog wrote:Hey Greg,

There is a higher reality beyond body and mind, which is called God by
religions. Eckhart Tolle prefers not to use the word ‘God’ because the
word is misused for years and the moment we start with that word, we
start with a bias or pre-judgements.

He calls this higher reality as ‘Being’. Being is our true nature beyond
the body and mind. Because it is beyond the mind, we can not understand
the Being state using mind and logic. One has to experience it. Being
is an eternal state, with stillness and peace, inside us.


Calling higher reality "being" is essentialism or eternalism. Dharma is
supposed to be a middle way between nihilism and eternalism, you can
believe the above, plenty of people do. Where do you see the connection
between the above quotes and Dharma though?

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .nymo.html

For starters read that - it's not long- and think about the implications
regarding this claim of "Being" as the highest reality.

by 'being' tolle mean presence in the here and now.
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby martin123 » Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:38 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:I got more important things to do right now, like wash the dishes! ;)

If we are going to disscuss tolle if would be helpful to watch a video or too,or else we are sort of wasting our time.or if one isnt interested thats fin too.but no real point in commenting.
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby lowlydog » Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:44 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:I got more important things to do right now, like wash the dishes! ;)


I know what you mean, two kids I'm constantly washing dishes. :smile:
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby lowlydog » Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:35 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:For starters read that - it's not long- and think about the implications regarding this claim of "Being" as the highest reality.


Thanks Johnny, That was a great read.

Watch this video http://youtu.be/gHupKiA1iCo when you get a chance its close to two hours long but full of pure gold.

Once you familiarise yourself with Tolle's language, which I understand can be a barrier for some especially if English is a second language, I'm certain you will find his teachings in line with the Buddha's. Tolle has helped me along with studying sutras, attending meditation retreats and practicing the 8-fold path on a daily basis.

We all have different accumulated karma but there is only one cure. The medicine can come in different forms and may on the gross level seem completley different, but once we penetrate the seemingly impenetrible shell of ignorance, if just for an instance, and experience real peace only then does it become real to us.

If you are truly opposed to Tolle then look very close at Tolle's work, and make up your own mind whether you would like to include his teachings in your practice or not. His work has been so beneficial to my practice and I am filled with nothing but gratitude, it is natural for one to want to share this with others.

I truly believe that when one finds a meditation technique that works for them to stick with it until they reach the final goal, but do not deny listening to accomplished masters just because they are from a tradition outside of your own. This would just seem unwise to me. :smile:
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:56 pm

I read through some texts rather than the video. It sounds like vedanta, again you get alot of the same stuff (an "I" behind the conventional "I") if you do Yoga that is roughly based on Vedantic and similar ideas. None of it seems unfamiliar, i'm just saying that it has some features that are distinctly non-Buddhist by my reading.

I'm not opposed to Tolle though, or any other spiritual teaching.

I'm sure there is merit to it, just like there is to all kinds of things. I'm not trying to talk about to any kind of universal "correctness" of teachings at all, i'm confining it to whether what is being taught is Dharma, and why you think it is.

My only questions is how/why all this "true being" "real self" whatever can possibly line up with Dharma, it seems to be the searching for another self behind the conventional self, which is at best a very minority view in Buddhism. Not-self is a core part of all Buddhism that I am aware of.

Again,maybe i'm wrong here, and what i'm seeing is just my own projections of a difference, then what it is about what Tolle's teaching that is particularly unique? If it IS in fact simply Dharma, then why does he not present it as Dharma, and why is it wholly separate from Buddhism?

Again I am not saying one shouldn't like or appreciate it, I do Kundalini yoga sometimes that is based on ideas of Yogi Bhajan and Sikh Dharma, in fact I really like alot of things about the Sikh Dharma. In some ways it shares points of view with Buddhism. In others it doesn't though, so I don't consider it "the same thing" as Buddhism. I like it, I consider the yoga practice beneficial, but Sikh Dharma isn't Buddhadharma..and I have no interest to make it seem like it is.

Why is this not the case with Tolle, if what he is teaching stands on it's own merits (as you think it does), why not just say it is inspirational to you, rather than say to say it somehow objectively lines up with Dharma?
Last edited by Johnny Dangerous on Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:01 am

Brief confession: Mr Tolle's first book got me into Buddhism. I still think it's pretty much the only new-agey book (along with ACIM) that is worth a gander. He may not count as a real teacher for purposes of dharma but I think his heart is in the right place.

Anyway it's hard to find the word for the absolute that doesn't come with nama-rupa baggage.
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby Jikan » Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:27 am

Karma Dondrup Tashi wrote:Brief confession: Mr Tolle's first book got me into Buddhism. I still think it's pretty much the only new-agey book (along with ACIM) that is worth a gander. He may not count as a real teacher for purposes of dharma but I think his heart is in the right place.

Anyway it's hard to find the word for the absolute that doesn't come with nama-rupa baggage.


That's interesting indeed. I'm glad Tolle's books are out there for this reason alone. For me, Frank Herbert's Dune turned me on to a path that led to Dharma after a few years' searching. This doesn't make Dune a Buddhist book or Herbert a Buddhist writer, but it does suggest that Dune has value. Perhaps the same can be said for Tolle's books for some readers. Books a great like that. You can learn from them: not necessarily what you expect to learn, either.

What's ACIM?

***

I think it's OK if Tolle isn't a Buddhist writer. In fact, calling him a Buddhist may be unkind to him, as it seems to misrepresent his teaching, a teaching many seem to find value in (good for them!). I think the question of whether Tolle's books have value or are of interest is different from the question of whether Tolle's books present a Buddhist position. Books don't have to be Buddhist books to be of value to Buddhists, or to anyone else.
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby Yudron » Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:11 am

catmoon wrote:
lowlydog wrote:
Sorry catmoon I'm not following you.


I am not going to be pulled into ideological combat with Eckhart Tolle is what I meant.



Catmoon is saying that he or she wants to keep her misgivings about Eckhart Tolle's teachings to him or her self, given that there are a lot worse things out there.
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:03 am

martin123 wrote:
gregkavarnos wrote:I got more important things to do right now, like wash the dishes! ;)

If we are going to disscuss tolle if would be helpful to watch a video or too,or else we are sort of wasting our time.or if one isnt interested thats fin too.but no real point in commenting.
I have watched a couple of his videos in the past. His explanations are the same old pseudo-Christian patchwork of New Age spiritual borrowings that you find all over the place. He is nothing new. He just has Oprah backing him. That's why he is famous. If he didn't have Oprah backing him he would have drowned in the cesspool of New Age feel-goody bargain bin buys ages ago. Once people grow bored of him, or the next Oprah pushes the next Tolle, he will also disappear. A vague cyber space memory and a few dog earred copies at the local garage sale is all that will be left.
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby catmoon » Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:50 am

Yudron wrote:
catmoon wrote:
lowlydog wrote:
Sorry catmoon I'm not following you.


I am not going to be pulled into ideological combat with Eckhart Tolle is what I meant.



Catmoon is saying that he or she wants to keep her misgivings about Eckhart Tolle's teachings to him or her self, given that there are a lot worse things out there.


That is correct. I also note that Mr Tolle manages to hold his belief system in such a way that he never needs to correct or insult anyone. He follows the Catmoon Rule, therefore I do the same with him. All the same, he draws from so many traditions that it is difficult to fit him into a drawer labelled "Buddhist".
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby lowlydog » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:56 pm

Jikan wrote:What's ACIM?




I think he's referring to A Course In Miracles.

There seems to be much fear in regards to Eckharts books amongst the Buddhist community. :shrug:
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby lowlydog » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:59 pm

catmoon wrote:he draws from so many traditions that it is difficult to fit him into a drawer labelled "Buddhist".


Who is trying to slap a label on him?
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby catmoon » Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:10 pm

lowlydog wrote:
catmoon wrote:he draws from so many traditions that it is difficult to fit him into a drawer labelled "Buddhist".


Who is trying to slap a label on him?


It was an observation, not an accusation.
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:16 pm

lowlydog wrote:There seems to be much fear in regards to Eckharts books amongst the Buddhist community. :shrug:
Yeah, well, I don't know about the rest of you all, but I personally am terrified.
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"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby lowlydog » Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:18 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:I have watched a couple of his videos in the past. His explanations are the same old pseudo-Christian patchwork of New Age spiritual borrowings that you find all over the place. He is nothing new. He just has Oprah backing him. That's why he is famous. If he didn't have Oprah backing him he would have drowned in the cesspool of New Age feel-goody bargain bin buys ages ago. Once people grow bored of him, or the next Oprah pushes the next Tolle, he will also disappear. A vague cyber space memory and a few dog earred copies at the local garage sale is all that will be left.
:namaste:


One could read a hundred sutras with a close minded attitude and get nothing from them, one can memorise all the Buddha's teachings and get them wrong also. The FACT that people do find Eckharts teaching helpful is why he is still in the mainstream, not because one rich woman likes him. If he did not have a genuine following Oprah's network would have dropped him ages ago.
Last edited by Sherab Dorje on Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Ad hominem remark removed
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby catmoon » Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:47 pm

Ok we've had a bit of bother here, the thread was briefly locked but we are rolling again. I would remind posters, as Greg has done, that ad homs are off the menu.
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Re: Eckhart Tolle on christmas

Postby Jikan » Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:05 pm

lowlydog wrote:There seems to be much fear in regards to Eckharts books amongst the Buddhist community. :shrug:


I think Tolle's books are mostly met by disinterest and boredom among the Buddhists I've been around. I haven't seen much fear; I haven't seen anything that would lead me to think Tolle is seen as a threat by Buddhists. Same goes for other writers in the "spirituality" section such as Ken Wilber, Marc Gafni, Andrew Cohen, &c.

What excites people is the Equation Game: making such claims as "some aspects of Tolle's writings look Buddhist-y, therefore Tolle is a Buddhist writer (or understands Dharma better than Buddhists do)," or "Wilber talks about Emptiness a lot, therefore he understands Nagarjuna better than this tradition or that teacher" and so on. These are silly claims because they're very difficult to demonstrate at best (being polite here).

Let Tolle be Tolle, let Buddhism be Buddhism, and everyone will get along fine.

:cheers:
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