Relationships With Non-Buddhists

[tomamundsen]

Hi,

Does anyone have advice on being in a (romantic) relationship with a non-Buddhist? I just moved in with my (non-Buddhist) girlfriend, and we have been arguing a lot.

Thanks.

[Konchog1]

Communication
Give and Take

[tomamundsen]

Maybe I should give a little more context. Our arguments often boil down to our different views, due to me being Buddhist and her, well, not being Buddhist. Particularly, I try to eliminate negative emotions and not express them, whereas she embraces them and believes that expressing them helps you work through things. Fundamentally, she believes that we have evolved to have negative emotions and they are useful for our survival. On the other hand, I look at negative emotions as an aberration to my natural state, and something that I ultimately want to get rid of.

This is just one example. I should also note: although she isn't Buddhist, she is Chinese and was raised in China for 20some years. So, she knows some things about Buddhism and even has Buddhist family.

[underthetree]

Well, I'm married to a non-Buddhist, the absolute love of my life... We work it out. Or rather, I work it out and if I get too frisky with the dharma she gives me one of her Atheist Looks.

It's taught me a lot. Huge teachings. One being, because I'm supposedly the Buddhist, why am I grumpy, annoyed, etc etc. I have to justify myself, which is very interesting. I have (quoting someone else on here a few threads ago) to own my bullshit. In that way, and many others, she isn't a 'non-Buddhist.' She's my blessed teacher.

And she is the Dakini, of course!

[Malcolm]

Hi,
I just moved in with my (non-Buddhist) girlfriend, and we have been arguing a lot.

Of course, it never really works with non-practitioners. Better for you to find someone in your sangha or a least another practitioner.

M

[underthetree]

Hi,
I just moved in with my (non-Buddhist) girlfriend, and we have been arguing a lot.

Of course, it never really works with non-practitioners. Better for you to find someone in your sangha or a least another practitioner.

M

Do you really think not, Malcolm? I often wonder about that, and the only conclusion I've come to thus far is that, if we were both practitioners, we'd weave a fake little Buddhist world for ourselves and exist inside a fluffy marshmallow of self-satisfaction.

[Malcolm]

Do you really think not, Malcolm?

I really think it is better for practitoners to be be partners with other practitioners. Of course, we should work with circumstances -- but in my life I have found that relationships with non-practitioners tend to be fraught with differing values and life-goals.

[underthetree]

relationships with non-practitioners tend to be fraught with differing values and life-goals.

As do all relationships, really. A relationship between two practitioners would be just as fraught when it came to worldly concerns, I'd have thought.

But I have no idea. You may very well be right. For me, my marriage - along with my family, my work and the rest of it - is part of my practice. I can't conceive of it any other way.

[Malcolm]

relationships with non-practitioners tend to be fraught with differing values and life-goals.

As do all relationships, really. A relationship between two practitioners would be just as fraught when it came to worldly concerns, I'd have thought.

But I have no idea. You may very well be right. For me, my marriage - along with my family, my work and the rest of it - is part of my practice. I can't conceive of it any other way.

We should work with circumstances.

[underthetree]

relationships with non-practitioners tend to be fraught with differing values and life-goals.

As do all relationships, really. A relationship between two practitioners would be just as fraught when it came to worldly concerns, I'd have thought.

But I have no idea. You may very well be right. For me, my marriage - along with my family, my work and the rest of it - is part of my practice. I can't conceive of it any other way.

We should work with circumstances.

Indeed. From one angle, they're all we've got.

[Sara H]

Maybe I should give a little more context. Our arguments often boil down to our different views, due to me being Buddhist and her, well, not being Buddhist. Particularly, I try to eliminate negative emotions and not express them, whereas she embraces them and believes that expressing them helps you work through things. Fundamentally, she believes that we have evolved to have negative emotions and they are useful for our survival. On the other hand, I look at negative emotions as an aberration to my natural state, and something that I ultimately want to get rid of.

This is just one example. I should also note: although she isn't Buddhist, she is Chinese and was raised in China for 20some years. So, she knows some things about Buddhism and even has Buddhist family.

Well, I belive there is an old saying that two religions can't share the same bed?

Communication, patience, love, compassion, kindness, and more communication and trust! lots of trust! will go a long way.

Ultimately it will come down to communication, love and trust.

You have to do your own training.

It certainly it possible it might not work out.

Then again, just because someone isn't officially "Buddhist" when the relationship starts doesn't mean it wont end up working.

You might try getting a better understanding of those views so you can explain them better.

Rather than viewing "refraining from anger" as simply as a "thou shalt not" comandment, maybe look deeper at it so you can explain exactly why it is harmful, rather than just a hard and fast rule.

And look at her views and see why they don't work and explain it to her with compassion for her.

And if she isn't willing to listen or isn't ready or just doesn't understand no matter what you try, just maybe back off and sit still with it for a while and just do your own training and try to refrain from anger and devisive speach and don't worry about her.

She might need time to absorb it or learn things on her own.

And it will either work out or it will not.

Just sit still with it, trust your gut, and work on compassion, that would be my advice.

In Gasshō,

Sara H

[dharmagoat]

I often wonder about that, and the only conclusion I've come to thus far is that, if we were both practitioners, we'd weave a fake little Buddhist world for ourselves and exist inside a fluffy marshmallow of self-satisfaction.

If only.

More likely you will find some small point of Buddhist doctrine to argue about. Like, for example...

[lisehull]

My husband is not Buddhist, and doesn't practice any other religion, and we don't have any issues about that or my being Buddhist. He is completely supportive and encourages me in my practice. I don't talk dharma issues with him as I am a relative newbie (at four years) and am not confident about expressing the dharma, but I do talk generally sometimes and he is supportive and attentive.

[Tarpa]

I've found that relationships with non pracs don't work too well in my experience, I found they waste an incredible amount of my time and energy, then again relationships with other Buddhists may not be wonderful either if they are practicing on a totally different level and look down upon vajrayana for instance or whatever u are practicing. I hang out with witches instead, they have a tremendous respect for buddhism, because their tradition is piece meal and fragmented and from many traditions and cultures they have an ingrained open mind toward other traditions, especially esoteric ones. I don't have to be on my best behaviour around them and feel constrained by feeling I have to fit into the " shiny good buddhist " posterchild stereotype around them, there's a mutual respect of each others thing and the need for time and privacy to do it. They have a fresh open curiosity about a lot of things that makes it enjoyable to teach them, and they help me learn things too and have a deeper understanding of some things, as opposed to having a boring 5 hour convo with other buddhists about madhyamika, or anything else. All in all I would rather be in a relationship with a practicing witch than with a materialist or Buddhist, I find it works out very well, being alone ALL THE TIME gets old.

[Sara H]

just don´t assert your conviction too much and rather explain more what it´s about. Merge your partner´s views with your own.

Thank you, you said that better than me.

In Gasshō

Sara H

[anjali]

Maybe I should give a little more context. Our arguments often boil down to our different views, due to me being Buddhist and her, well, not being Buddhist. Particularly, I try to eliminate negative emotions and not express them, whereas she embraces them and believes that expressing them helps you work through things. Fundamentally, she believes that we have evolved to have negative emotions and they are useful for our survival. On the other hand, I look at negative emotions as an aberration to my natural state, and something that I ultimately want to get rid of.

This is just one example. I should also note: although she isn't Buddhist, she is Chinese and was raised in China for 20some years. So, she knows some things about Buddhism and even has Buddhist family.

In a close relationship there will always be occasional disagreements/arguments. That's to be expected. When it is frequent there is a problem. At that point one has to look at what the foundation for the relationship is. One can reasonably ask, is the foundation of the relationship based on loving-kindness and compassion? Do you feel joy in each other's happiness? On the whole, does the relationship promote peace/equanimity? A while back I read Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche's The Heart of Compassion: The Thirty-Seven Verses on the Practice of a Bodhisattva. When I read your post, I thought of verse 5:

In bad company, the three poisons grow stronger,
Listening, reflection, and meditation decline,
And loving-kindness and compassion vanish--
to avoid unsuitable friends is the practice of a bodhisattva.

Here is an extended extract from DKR's commentary on the verse,

And unsuitable friend is one who is fond of distractions, totally immersed in ordinary worldly activities, and who does not care in the least about achieving liberation--a friend who has no interest or faith in the Three Jewels. The more time you spend with such a person, the more the three poisons will permeate your mind. Even if you do not initially agree with their ideas and actions, if you spend a lot of time with unsuitable friends, you will eventually be influenced by their bad habits. Your resolve to act positively will decline, and you will waster your life. Such people will prevent you from spending any time studying, reflecting, and meditating--which are the roots of liberation. And they will make you lose whatever qualities you may have developed, especially compassion and love--which are the very essence of the teachings of the Great Vehicle. An unsuitable friend is like a bad captain who steers his ship onto the rocks. Such people are your worst enemy. You owe it to yourself to stay away from them.

In contrast, being with people who embody or aspire to gentleness, compassion, and love will encourage you to develop those qualities so essential to the path. Inspired by their example, you will become filled with love for all beings, and come to see the inherent negativity of attachment and hatred....

This advice is about friends in general, but is also applicable to boy/girl friends and any close relationship that has a strong influence on us. I know the advice might come across as harsh, but your heart will be saved a lot of grief if you follow this advice.

[Yudron]

Maybe I should give a little more context. Our arguments often boil down to our different views, due to me being Buddhist and her, well, not being Buddhist. Particularly, I try to eliminate negative emotions and not express them, whereas she embraces them and believes that expressing them helps you work through things. Fundamentally, she believes that we have evolved to have negative emotions and they are useful for our survival. On the other hand, I look at negative emotions as an aberration to my natural state, and something that I ultimately want to get rid of.

I don't expect I will ever be involved with someone who is not a practitioner again. It is tough, it's true.

That being said, can I ruffle your feathers just a little bit?

If you were a Theravadin practitioner these issues you mentioned might be big concerns. But if you are a Vajrayana practitioner, why would you want to get rid of those so-called negative emotions? As Vajrayana practitioners they are our best friends, helping us for find our natural state. Trying to artificially eliminate them, or even labeling them as aberrations has nothing to do with the practice of the Vajrayana or Dzogchen.

[Kunzang]

Hi,
I just moved in with my (non-Buddhist) girlfriend, and we have been arguing a lot.

Of course, it never really works with non-practitioners. Better for you to find someone in your sangha or a least another practitioner.

M

Never really works, huh?

We'll be having our 26th anniversary in September.

[Dave The Seeker]

Maybe I should give a little more context. Our arguments often boil down to our different views, due to me being Buddhist and her, well, not being Buddhist. Particularly, I try to eliminate negative emotions and not express them, whereas she embraces them and believes that expressing them helps you work through things.

I'm also in a relationship with a non-Buddhist, we love each other and accept the other as they are.
I don't push my views on her and she doesn't push hers on me. Each person is different, so even two Buddhists will have different views to an extent.

You two must have some love for each other or you wouldn't be together. There is a lot of things you find out about each other in living together, you now share a space instead of going home when things get "uncomfortable". It can surly be a rough road for the first little while until you're both used to the sharing of a home.

As to the negative emotions, we all have them and need to work through them. Each in our own way of course.
Just be sure to keep an open mind to what she says as her opinion, and in mindfulness accept that.
There will be many challenges ahead, but they're only temporary challenges and each will work themselves out in one way or another.

Check the first quote in my signature.

Wishing you all the best my friend.

With Metta, Dave

[PadmaVonSamba]

I look at negative emotions as an aberration to my natural state, and something that I ultimately want to get rid of.

You cannot get rid of negative emotional states. They come and they go.
The point is to get rid of your attachment to them.
Since this situation is creating negative emotional states,
don't become attached to them.
Then your disagreements will not matter.
.
.
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