Magic and superstition

Discuss your personal experience with the Dharma here. How has it enriched your life? What challenges does it present?

Re: Magic and superstition

Postby Jeff » Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:07 pm

kirtu wrote:
Jeff wrote:Curses are like insults. The power is based in the belief that it is true.


This is unfortunately not always true. There are spiritual forces that can be harnessed (or will lend there activity in some way) to really cause harm to another even if the victim is unaware of the curse or intention. In these cases the curse appears to have an objective reality. I think this is rarely observed and almost never acknowledged in the west where such activity is almost always reduced to a phenomena with a purely psychological basis.

I have in fact seen this happen and directed against a person who most certainly did not believe in such things but was nonetheless injured.

Kirt


Your point is valid. I was discussing it in the framework of his description of a "random thought". If one "resonates" with lower frequencies, it is possible.

:smile:
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby kirtu » Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:22 pm

GarcherLancelot wrote:
kirtu wrote:
Jeff wrote:Curses are like insults. The power is based in the belief that it is true.


This is unfortunately not always true. There are spiritual forces that can be harnessed (or will lend there activity in some way) to really cause harm to another even if the victim is unaware of the curse or intention. In these cases the curse appears to have an objective reality. I think this is rarely observed and almost never acknowledged in the west where such activity is almost always reduced to a phenomena with a purely psychological basis.

I have in fact seen this happen and directed against a person who most certainly did not believe in such things but was nonetheless injured.

But how do they do it?


Chagdud Tulku said in this autobiography, Lord of the Dance, that fundamentally there has to be a basis of negativity that permits this to arise. So sometimes people would come to him saying that they had been cursed, etc. and he would perform activities to help them but he also told them to purify their minds in order to remove the basis for these phenomena. If we remove the negativity in ourselves or if others remove the negativity in their lives then there is no basis for these phenomena to arise.

Buddhism has many methods for removing negativity but it is always built on the basis of mind training. So tonglen or Buddha repentance rituals or esoteric techniques, these are all practiced on the basis of training the mind in lovingkindness and compassion.

BTW - Chagdud Tulku himself said openly that sometimes he was overwhelmed by negativity as a young man. Once he was so angry with someone that he began a ceremony to curse the person. This ceremony took some time however. As he was about to complete the ceremony (or perhaps as he was just about to finish the preliminaries for the ceremony) he was called to his teacher's place. His teacher praised him for his wisdom and practice and told Chagdud Tulku that he was certain that he would never misuse the Dharma unlike some people who sometimes fell into deep negativity. Chagdud Tulku was chastened and didn't proceed with the ceremony.

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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby GarcherLancelot » Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:28 am

zangskar wrote:GarcherLancelot, the very definition of the "occult" is that it's hidden, mysterious, weird, impossible to give a rational explanation even to those who "master" it (or seem to master, for some period of time). That also means that asking on internet forums about "whether or not the occult is real" and "how it works" and so on is likely to result in only a lot more fuel to the fire of doubt and confusion that seems to be going on in your mind, because you will get 100s of different views and no way to know which one to put your own faith in.

Based on this thread and the "spirit guide" thread my guess is that what you are looking for, or should be looking for, is probably some form of therapy to deal with your thoughts. No offense but this all sounds a lot like obsessive compulsive disorder. However if I'm completely wrong about this then I'm sorry, I really don't mean to insult you. But if I'm more or less right then the "solution" to your worries is most likely not to dwelve further into the reality or non-reality of cursing and black magic, but simply to learn to deal with your thoughts in a way that will keep them from haunting YOU: You are the prime victim here, your thoughts are causing you pain and misery. It's possible you could find some advice to deal with these things from the perspective of Western therapy on your own, I guess it depends on how severe it is for you. These are just the two first google results I got:
http://www.helpguide.org/mental/obsessi ... er_ocd.htm
http://www.anxietyandstress.com/dealingwithocd.html

If you insist on a "supernatural" solution to your worries then you should probably seek out a professional in that area, in whom you have faith, or you respect: a lama, monastery or priest, or a "wise" man or woman of some sort, and ask for them for help and a blessing (or ritual) to help you. (However, if you're in the West it's likely that many would simply refer you to therapy. But then you could accept this advice, and go to therapy, but also ask for additional prayers, which few would deny you.)

Whatever you choose, I pray and hope that your painful thoughts will be liberated and transformed into the best thoughts.

Best wishes
Lars

None taken,yup it is OCD,actually I am glad it is JUST OCD and most likely not real lol.Any idea how can I find some "professional that i can trust " in malaysia online?
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby rai » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:43 pm

GarcherLancelot wrote:Hmm,how to make sure you did not curse anyone or something or some action by thinking about it,it doesn't workthrough law of attraction or something like that right?


I think perhaps making a lot of aspirations would help, something like that of Nagajruna:

Whether extending respectful trust to me or even hating me,
If they but behold me or merely bear me in mind,
Even to the point that they only hear my name,
May they thus be bound for certain success on the path to bodhi


or

May all my activities of body, speech and mind always benefit others


or some longer ones:

The King of Aspiration Prayers: Samantabhadra’s “Aspiration to Good Actions” http://www.lotsawahouse.org/topics/aspi ... od-actions

Aspirations from chapter 3 Santideva's The Way of the Bodhisattva
http://www.lotsawahouse.org/topics/bodh ... /chapter-3

there are many many more.

I had some similar worries like you some time ago and it helped me to think that somehow by doing those aspirations wholeheartedly automatically during the day my actions of body, speech and mind turns into something good. Like Santideva wrote in The Bodhisattva Way of Life that someone who arouse bodhicitta accumulates virtue even while sleeping in a sense that after taking bohisattva vow or arising bodhicitta all you activities turns into something positive even if you do something mindlessly.

Hope it helps a little.
Disdaining the lower and unable to grasp the higher,
talking of emptiness, such a person will neglect cause and effect,
mouthing on about the view while in a state of self-deception.
It would be better to concentrate on the gradual path.

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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby zangskar » Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:21 pm

GarcherLancelot, I'm not familiar with Malaysia unfortunately. Maybe there is a national association of therapists or psychologists that could refer you to one in your area? Alternatively maybe you could ask your doctor, or another doctor to refer you somewhere. If you don't feel comfortable telling an M.D. what the problem is then maybe just describe it in very general terms. For spiritual advice there must be many different Buddhist organizations in Malaysia where you can see an ordained priest, monk or lama- I don't know if Buddhists are mainly concentrated in some parts of the country and not in others?

I think rais suggestions are very good by the way.

All the best
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby GarcherLancelot » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:14 pm

Ok,on a side note,do dharani and mantra have power(uhm do they?) because of somehting like Law of Attraction or what?.. .
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby catmoon » Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:40 am

GarcherLancelot wrote:Ok,on a side note,do dharani and mantra have power(uhm do they?) because of somehting like Law of Attraction or what?.. .


Yes. At the very least, one can look at mantra from a purely mundane point of view. Correctly done, mantra is a steady contemplation of a virtuous object. The human mind cannot contemplate such objects for long before they start to influence that mind. Mantra can literally change who you are. It takes time, though.
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby Indrajala » Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:56 am

GarcherLancelot wrote:Ok,on a side note,do dharani and mantra have power(uhm do they?) because of somehting like Law of Attraction or what?.. .


They work via the power of speech. You transform your mind and circumstances by constantly being exposed to the meaning they represent. You emulate what you contemplate. If you contemplate a mantra of compassion, then you will become more compassionate.
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby Jikan » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:48 pm

GarcherLancelot wrote:I am pretty sure Buddha discourage people from believing in superstitions or performing "spells",the thing is how do we draw the line between spells and superstition(for example feng shui,LoA,tarot etc.)?I am not interested in any "magic" to bring me wealth or anything like that ,but I read New Age and other stuffs,sometimes I just fulfill some of my rituals and someitmes I forgot about them,I wonder does it have any credibility or is it just pure superstition?


Back to the OP:

http://www.skepticaloccultism.com/2008/ ... e-spirits/

I think much of what circulates as spiritualism, new-age, or "metaphysics" is a means of extracting money from people who are vulnerable to suggestion and manipulation. The article linked above is one example. It may be meaningful to some, but...
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby GarcherLancelot » Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:01 pm

Ok btw,not sure if it is just people from my local area thing,but if someone say "you are going to get car accident later!" does it make it more likely to be true?.. .
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby Nothing » Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:27 pm

GarcherLancelot wrote:if someone say "you are going to get car accident later!" does it make it more likely to be true?.. .

When someone says this, it doesn't mean it is true until it has happened....yes?
now say if it did happened, then the question would be how did the person know?.....then this will be interesting.....is this not possible?
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby GarcherLancelot » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:31 pm

Nothing wrote:
GarcherLancelot wrote:if someone say "you are going to get car accident later!" does it make it more likely to be true?.. .

When someone says this, it doesn't mean it is true until it has happened....yes?
now say if it did happened, then the question would be how did the person know?.....then this will be interesting.....is this not possible?

I don't mean they predict that thing would happen but they just simply say that thing and if that thing really did happen,other than coincidence,is there any other explanation?I know that most likely its just coincidence and the chance of happening depends on how likely it is going to happen in the first place no matter who said what.. .
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby GarcherLancelot » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:09 am

:alien: Does making vows have any power?.. .
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:17 am

GarcherLancelot wrote::alien: Does making vows have any power?.. .
Of course it does, but only if you make the vow with conviction, with a view to keeping the vow. The power of the vow is the effect of the conviction upon ones mind and, if the vow is taken publicly, the way people will then view and relate to the individual that has taken the vow.
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby GarcherLancelot » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:10 am

gregkavarnos wrote:
GarcherLancelot wrote::alien: Does making vows have any power?.. .
Of course it does, but only if you make the vow with conviction, with a view to keeping the vow. The power of the vow is the effect of the conviction upon ones mind and, if the vow is taken publicly, the way people will then view and relate to the individual that has taken the vow.
:namaste:


http://online.sfsu.edu/repstein/Buddhis ... hentic.htm :alien: .. .
Oh actually I am referring to some monk(I think) named Hsuan Hua that vowed that if what he said about a sutra being genuine is false,he will get punished......so all it matters is conviction and not the words huh?Something like Law of Attraction?.. .
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:20 am

Punished? By who?

What matters, when it comes to vows, is what you believe. What matters, is your mind.
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby GarcherLancelot » Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:50 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:Punished? By who?

What matters, when it comes to vows, is what you believe. What matters, is your mind.
:namaste:

Don't know by who,did u read that article btw?.. .
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:02 pm

Yes, well... I wouldn't exactly call it an article.

The Hell of pulling tongues, huh... A real place I tell yah! Here is some photographic evidence:
images.jpg
images.jpg (5.8 KiB) Viewed 814 times
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby GarcherLancelot » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:04 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:Yes, well... I wouldn't exactly call it an article.

The Hell of pulling tongues, huh... A real place I tell yah! Here is some photographic evidence:
images.jpg


Well,I mean what if that place exists?.. .
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Re: Magic and superstition

Postby KennC » Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:20 pm

Here is a really good Dharma talk by Ajahn Brahm about superstition which might answer some of the question regarding superstition, ...trinket jewellery, mindless chanting and holy water.. .http://www.buddhastation.com/buddhism-videos/dharma-talks/ajahn-brahm/superstitions-dhamma-talk-by-ajahn-brahm/
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