Buddha on Romantic Relationships - Personal Empirical Observ

[Lhug-Pa]

About the first half of your post:

but it could be very likely.

Even more likely that there's not a shred of evidence for this, so it actually is very unlikely.

Regarding the second half of your post, Light/Rainbow body could be quite possible among Sufi's such as Rumi, Al-Hallaj, etc. though. According to some Gnostic groups Sufi practice can lead to Light/Rainbow body.

[greentara]

skywalker, As you are so is the world. If you want to see Rumi as god intoxicated....fine. If you want to see Rumi as lustful or romantically entangled also fine. It all happened along time ago; no one can say for sure.

[Skywalker]

I have no opinion on whether Rumi was gay, lustful, "entangled" in a romantic relationship. I said it was likely that he was romantically involved with Shams because he speaks of Shams and his relationship as if it is romantic, and they lived together and slept in the same bed. I am not saying this is proof, but I would consider it evidence that implies that it could be the case. Not that I care at all. That is their business.

I do know that Rumi was God-intoxicated. This is evident. And that is all I care about, and his poetry, and his contribution to the Sufi tradition. However, I don't think that a student-teacher relationship excludes a romantic relationship as well, as long as one doesn't become "entangled" in it. And the teacher is not exploiting his status as teacher. Shams could not become entangled. But really who cares? Not me. I didn't mean to offend.

[Lhug-Pa]

"The most ineffable part of Mohammedan mysticism is Persian Sufism. It has the merit of struggling against materialism and fanaticism and against the literal interpretation of the Koran.  The Sufis interpret the Koran from the esoteric point of view as we, the Gnostics, interpret the New Testament.

"What is most disconcerting to Westerners is the strange and mysterious mixture of the erotic with the mystical in the oriental religions and Sufi mysticism. Christian theology considers the flesh to be hostile to the Spirit. However, in the Muslim religion, the flesh and the Spirit are two substances of the same energy, two substances that must help each other. This subject-matter is only understood by those who practice positive Sexual Magic.  In the East, religion, science, art, and philosophy are taught in an erotic and exquisite sexual language.  “Mohammed fell in love with God,” state the mystic Arabs.  “Select a new wife for yourself each spring of the new year, because last year’s calendar is no good,” says a Persian poet and philosopher."

"...after six hundred years of Christianity another message about the Perfect Matrimony became necessary. Then came Mohammed, the great preacher of the Perfect Matrimony. Naturally, as always, Mohammed was violently rejected by Infrasexual men who hate women. This disgusting society of enemies of women believe that only by compulsory celibacy can one reach God.  This is a crime."

[greentara]

Lhug pa, "This subject-matter is only understood by those who practice positive Sexual Magic. In the East, religion, science, art, and philosophy are taught in an erotic and exquisite sexual language" What is posative sexual magic?
Anyway seldom and Not always. Sufi's say secretely what Hindus say openly. Which is still preferable to the conservative arm of Islam which is circulating now.

[Lhug-Pa]

Hi Greentara, the type of Sexual Magic referred to there is in essence the same as the Sexual Yoga taught about by H.H. the Dalai Lama, and also within Anuyoga as taught in a Terma teaching translated in Keith Dowman's Skydancer. I believe that both were discussed earlier in this very thread.

[CoolIt]

I think the Buddha made pretty clear that the celibate life was far better for serious practice. For those unable to enter a celibate order, yes, one gets into householder arrangements of various sorts. They can be as virtuously navigated as possible.



Personal experience: When I practiced very seriously - I had no thoughts of 'being with' someone and wasn't pursuing, looking, sending out subconscious signals, getting imbalanced around people who flexed the metaphoric pair of biceps and said 'How intriguing you are" in some sort of mating game, etc. And my practice was going great, palpably wonderfully, actually

Then one day, Practical Thoughts overcame me and I thought thus: Since the monastic order is a bit of a mess worldwide, I was likely to end my days as a lay person. As a lay person, the world comprehends and embraces one better in a Pair. This also saves scarce fossil fuels, and provides the caring company that outside of Pairs, lay society does not much provide. So I decided to find me a mate. This required putting out signals "looking interested", being keenly attuned to the signals of anyone "interested in me", the awful fear of jealous angers in a world of singles all trying to hook up - and all of those things. My practice suffered - but of course! Of course it suffered!

And yes I'm 'in a relationship' now and my practice is not at all as sharp and committed as it used to be...how can it be, when no two people ever have the same pace or intensity of practice from moment to moment, yet everyday life is all synced up to be together every evening after work

The only tremendous relief is that my partner and I neither of us wants either kids or property

I still have thoughts of ordaining, which I've shared with him and mercifully, he does not judge

[greentara]

Poem by Joseph Riley ~

Rumi the poet was a scholar also.

But Shams, his friend, was an angel.

By which I don't mean anything patient or sweet.

When I read how he took Rumi's books and threw them

into the duck pond,

I shouted for joy. Time to live now,

Shams meant.

I see him, turning away

casually toward the road, Rumi following, the books

floating and sinking among the screeching ducks,

oh, beautiful book-eating pond!」-