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 Post subject: Re: teknix's Views
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:56 am 
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 Post subject: Re: teknix's Views
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:57 am 
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teknix wrote:

It is often the case when ones beliefs come into question, a self-defense mechanism designed to contain energy within a given structure or form is unleashed to aid in justifying the falseness.


But you have not questioned anyone's beleifs. You have merely proferred your own.

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 Post subject: Re: teknix's Views
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:57 am 
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Namdrol wrote:
teknix wrote:

It takes an ego to point at an ego.



And?


The subtlety is that the accuser is the one displaying ego.


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 Post subject: Re: teknix's Views
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:58 am 
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Namdrol wrote:
teknix wrote:

It is often the case when ones beliefs come into question, a self-defense mechanism designed to contain energy within a given structure or form is unleashed to aid in justifying the falseness.


But you have not questioned anyone's beleifs. You have merely proferred your own.


I do not hold any beliefs that I am aware of, maybe you could point them out for me.


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 Post subject: Re: teknix's Views
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:58 am 
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teknix wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
teknix wrote:

It takes an ego to point at an ego.



And?


The subtlety is that the accuser is the one displaying ego.


Yes, so when you said that "Let's see how bloated these ego's are" you admit then that you are merely displaying your own ego, correct?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:00 am 
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wisdom wrote:
The fear of emptiness comes from having a strong ego. Realizing emptiness means death for the ego, and the ego will do whatever it can to prevent that. This is why guidance and teachers are good to have on the path. When we try to do it all on our own, we will find it very difficult to surmount these many obstacles by ourselves. Even reincarnated Bodhisattvas will seek the guidance of teachers. Even Buddha had teachers. Every great master that I can think of in any spiritual tradition had teachers. I suggest you follow their example and do the same.



This belief will lead you to realizing what an arhat really is. It is within the subtleties that make or break.


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 Post subject: Re: teknix's Views
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:01 am 
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teknix wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
teknix wrote:

It is often the case when ones beliefs come into question, a self-defense mechanism designed to contain energy within a given structure or form is unleashed to aid in justifying the falseness.


But you have not questioned anyone's beleifs. You have merely proferred your own.


I do not hold any beliefs that I am aware of, maybe you could point them out for me.



You responded with a cracked mirror. Apparently, some subtleties are lost even to you.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:03 am 
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teknix wrote:
Jikan wrote:
When you insist on going your own way and avoiding a teacher, you are putting a deluded person in charge of your development: yourself.

Would you give yourself a dental filling? A colonoscopy? No: you'd trust a competent person for that. Similarly for Buddhist practice.

For the OP, there are particular challenges that need to be addressed. But as a general rule, it's much better to practice with others and with a capable teacher if you want to get some results.


Then there is a risk that the teacher is no teacher at all, but a conman instead. Some do benefit greatly from teachers, don't get me wrong, but it is not the teacher doing the doing for you, only you.

Some teachers are vampires and demand tribute and consider themself special, then indoctrinate others into that same belief system, all the while it is being reinforced by the others that have already been indoctrinated. You have to have a seeker mentality even when using a teach if you want to achieve liberation, which I think you guys are referring to "awakening" when you say liberation, and not enlightenment.


Yes, it's true that you may wind up following a fraud rather than an authentic teacher. This is why you have to use some discrimination and examine potential teachers with great care. Check out several of them, in fact. It takes time and effort to find a proper learning environment.

It's true that there are vampires out there pretending to be authentic teachers of Dharma (or cognate). Here are some examples of public figures who, in my opinion, fit that bill. Your mileage may vary.

http://www.oregonlive.com/rajneesh

both of these guys:

http://www.adidawilber.com

&c

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 Post subject: Re: teknix's Views
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:03 am 
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Namdrol wrote:


You responded with a cracked mirror. Apparently, some subtleties are lost even on you.


I am sure there are some that are. It maybe lost on me, or the response could just as well be lost on you.


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 Post subject: Re: teknix's Views
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:05 am 
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teknix wrote:
Namdrol wrote:


You responded with a cracked mirror. Apparently, some subtleties are lost even on you.


I am sure there are some that are. It maybe lost on me, or the response could just as well be lost on you.


When one holds up one finger, the other should hold up one finger. If the other holds up two fingers, it means the other does not understand.

N

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How can you not practice the highest Dharma
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 Post subject: Re: teknix's Views
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:06 am 
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teknix wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
teknix wrote:

It is often the case when ones beliefs come into question, a self-defense mechanism designed to contain energy within a given structure or form is unleashed to aid in justifying the falseness.


But you have not questioned anyone's beleifs. You have merely proferred your own.


I do not hold any beliefs that I am aware of, maybe you could point them out for me.


Well, you've got a whole thread of them here......

We are essentially energy. That is your belief, or you have stated words to that effect.
Quantum Mechanics somehow can be used to explain reincarnation?

Teknix, I would love to understand how it is that you feel that being essentially energy is to be taken, in a Buddhist context? If we are all essentially energy, then why is it that a tree is a tree, and I am what I am? Why, for that matter, is a Buddha "enlightened," while I, who according to your idea is comprised of, or at least shares, the same energy as a Buddha, still suffer?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:08 am 
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Thrasymachus wrote:
I think you have a lot to learn, texnix. When I first discovered Tibetan Buddhist via the book The Joy of Living by Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche, I thought I didn't need teachers when I could just have books. That I didn't need a sangha, that I only needed myself. But since then I have seen lots of studies that show how your social environment, those around you effect you. Also you cannot convince people to take steps toward enlightenment or self-improvement that they are not receptive toward. It does not matter what you do, something has to happen in their lives to make them receptive to outside change. In Buddhism they explain this in terms of past karma. In the example of my going vegan, in the back of The Jungle by Upton Sinclair there were lots of articles of the past and modern meat-packing industry that I read. I thought it was so messed up, what happened to fodder animals, that I wished I had the strength or discipline to at least go vegetarian. But nothing happened until I saw my cat die in 2009, which I had with me for 14 years. When I saw how she just wanted to avoid suffering, the pathetic look in her eyes, when I saw her convulsing out of breath like a fish on the floor, it made me realize I could not do that other animals, by eating them. People don't just change because you are so awesome or enlightened, and it is not your personal failure if they don't.

I have come to believe that somehow through mental intuition the Buddhist canon is really the world vanguard, that they have discovered what some of the best and most uplifting discoveries of Western science(which is overall non-virtuous) are just beginning to scratch. When they advise to seek sanctuary from mundane concerns in a retreat, to find a teacher/root guru, to join a sangha, it is not just something they say to say it or for no reason. These are things that are really beneficial.


Ah well, whatever happens next along my path only adds to what is already known, nothing of the known ever becomes unknown, only elaborated upon. Such is the luxury of truth.


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 Post subject: Re: teknix's Views
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:09 am 
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More to the point, the "aloha amigo" trip, the one where you claim to have a handle on the essence of all and disregard the differences and so on, is an excellent breeding ground for some heavy and counter-productive ego trips, as in Adi Da, Rajneesh, Wilber and so on.

If you want to turn out like them, or turn out broke and burned out like one of their students, then follow their example.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:12 am 
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teknix wrote:
The fear of emptiness maybe reconciled within the ego, absolute void is not something one generally experiences without it becoming absolute nothingness.


What is "it" that is not becoming absolute nothingness? I'm having trouble parsing your sentence here. Are you saying that absolute void, when it is directly experienced, is the absolute nothingness? So?

Quote:
There was not fear, but negativity and nothingness radiating. The void of emptiness is not an absolute nothingness. This of course is likely beyond your experiences to realize at this point.


So the void of emptiness radiated negativity? How does something which is empty radiate anything? Negative or positive? How, exactly, does nothingness "radiate?"

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:15 am 
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teknix wrote:
Ah well, whatever happens next along my path only adds to what is already known, nothing of the known ever becomes unknown, only elaborated upon. Such is the luxury of truth.


What does this mean?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:18 am 
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Thrasymachus wrote:
I think you have a lot to learn, texnix. When I first discovered Tibetan Buddhist via the book The Joy of Living by Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche, I thought I didn't need teachers when I could just have books. That I didn't need a sangha, that I only needed myself. But since then I have seen lots of studies that show how your social environment, those around you effect you. Also you cannot convince people to take steps toward enlightenment or self-improvement that they are not receptive toward. It does not matter what you do, something has to happen in their lives to make them receptive to outside change. In Buddhism they explain this in terms of past karma. In the example of my going vegan, in the back of The Jungle by Upton Sinclair there were lots of articles of the past and modern meat-packing industry that I read. I thought it was so messed up, what happened to fodder animals, that I wished I had the strength or discipline to at least go vegetarian. But nothing happened until I saw my cat die in 2009, which I had with me for 14 years. When I saw how she just wanted to avoid suffering, the pathetic look in her eyes, when I saw her convulsing out of breath like a fish on the floor, it made me realize I could not do that other animals, by eating them. People don't just change because you are so awesome or enlightened, and it is not your personal failure if they don't.

I have come to believe that somehow through mental intuition the Buddhist canon is really the world vanguard, that they have discovered what some of the best and most uplifting discoveries of Western science(which is overall non-virtuous) are just beginning to scratch. When they advise to seek sanctuary from mundane concerns in a retreat, to find a teacher/root guru, to join a sangha, it is not just something they say to say it or for no reason. These are things that are really beneficial.


:good:

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:20 am 
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Until a teacher can travel into the past and teach me the things I have discovered, then I must disagree. That is knowing, only accepting that which you can know and accepting that which may always be unknown, as unknown, without dwelling upon it.


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 Post subject: Re: teknix's Views
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:49 am 
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It's not Kev again is it?


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 Post subject: Re: teknix's Views
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:53 am 
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no, Kev is much more rigorous in his development of ideas

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:57 am 
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catmoon wrote:
Thrasymachus wrote:
However if you look at your immediate environment, unless perhaps if you are in a monastery, everyone just seeks out greed, hedonism and to avoid what is unpleasant. It is not a very inspiring example, it drags you down closer to their level even if you want to seek a more virtuous path you just get discouraged.



Now this is fundamental. It is true that with very little effort a self-serving motivation can be found for almost any action. The classic example is "You just gave that guy five bucks because it makes you feel good".

The Dalai Lama takes a radical approach to this. He simply acknowledges that you can't beat the argument, and takes another tack entirely. He has spoken about selfishness as opposed to "enlightened selfishness". Since we cannot avoid acting in our own interests one way or the other, without becoming self-destructive, he advocates choosing those selfish actions that are beneficial to others as much as possible. If it makes you happy, that's fine, there's no other way to go at it.


No kidding! It does seem more beneficial when considering the cause and effect it has on humanity. Love is not selfish, its nature is giving to all which also includes you.

Often the first, and most difficult step for me in metta was loving oneself.

:heart:


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