Unless you are directly in the presence of the great wall , no great wall exists
No not just - because we can actually go and find a structure labelled the GWC. It doesn't fade out of existence if it's out of sight.
True, within mind an entire process of planning to go, going, arriving etc.. seems to occur, however that doesn't change the undeniable fact that unless you are presently in front of the great wall, there is no great wall. Empirically, only what is directly occurring at this very moment can be validated.
It's our habitual tendencies which piece all of these components together to form the world and the "happening" we call life. However when carefully examined they don't truly paint the picture we assume they do.
kirtu wrote: you played the inherently exists card - I did not and have not said at all that the GWC inherently exists (it doesn't). But it does exist relatively and physically independent of concepts before analysis (of course I just played the before analysis card).
It does not exist independently of concepts, and if something only exists relatively as a result of conception, then it cannot be said to truly exist at all. Physicality is a misnomer.
kirtu wrote: The tsunami in the Indian Ocean didn't inherently exist either but it's devastation was quite real for thousands of relative beings.
These are words on a page which convey an idea. It's useful to consider this event as happening in the past so that one may anticipate a like event occurring in the future, but even at that, it is all projected ideation occurring in the immediacy, which seems to be painting a picture of past/future events (when in truth it is just a presently occurring expression of naturalness). No such event is evident in reality, which is this very timeless moment.
I don't reject the conventional reality of these happenings, but to confuse the conventional with the true nature of things is a mistake. The reality of the conventional is equivalent to an illusion or a dream, ultimately unreal.
kirtu wrote: No the relative world is not about stories or beliefs (well, alot of it is - national myths, racial myths, etc.). But physical objects have real physical existence with real effects even if we don't know about them beforehand. Babies in Auschwitz without a concept of gas or a bullet or fire were nonetheless murdered by those relative forces.
Yes the mind pieces components together to form a such a picture.... there are no physical objects, no physical existence, no physical effects, no beforehand, no aftermath. However all of these things do seem to appear in mind and I don't reject that.
kirtu wrote: The relative world does not disappear in samadhi. Concepts about the relative world can.
True samadhi is one's natural state, and being that the relative world is a product of ignorance it certainly does dissolve upon correct view. The relative world is solely a product of conception. Concepts don't describe or comment on pre-existent 'things'.... the 'things' arise from imputed concepts and are inseparable from them.