People phasing out of conversation

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Re: People phasing out of conversation

Postby mandala » Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:25 pm

duckfiasco wrote:It's like people can't stand silence or lulls... as soon as there's a moment, the phone comes out.
What are they running from all the time? I think we know, but they have no idea they're even running, and it's very sad.


I love silence, i have to say... one thing that gets me quite annoyed is when people chat about useless, trivial stuff just to fill up the space. Like regaling every moment of a shopping trip or gossiping about who's doing what - i find it painful to sit through while internally I'm saying, oh please just shut up!

Maybe I'm anti-social, I don't know. At least I leave my phone alone when someone wants to talk though, i guess.
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Re: People phasing out of conversation

Postby Roland » Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:22 pm

wisdom wrote:The trick is to stop wanting to have anything to say.


This is key. I desire to say something, people usually phase out, then I struggle to reiterate the meaning, they phase out... its exhausting. This might help with the constant cell phone usage too.

People in general think they need to be constantly doing something. There aren't many people who know how to do nothing. But nothing is something worth doing.

mandala wrote:
duckfiasco wrote:It's like people can't stand silence or lulls... as soon as there's a moment, the phone comes out.
What are they running from all the time? I think we know, but they have no idea they're even running, and it's very sad.


I love silence, i have to say... one thing that gets me quite annoyed is when people chat about useless, trivial stuff just to fill up the space. Like regaling every moment of a shopping trip or gossiping about who's doing what - i find it painful to sit through while internally I'm saying, oh please just shut up!


That's usually when my mind starts wandering or has that "UGHHH" feeling. Lately, I've been moving more towards just sitting there and listening, recognizing that when they start talking about shopping trips, gossip, or just regular logistical day-to-day activites, that this is all idle, pointless chatter, but this person clearly feels the need to talk to someone so I just try to listen. I've basically turned it into an exercise in attention. I've found that most of the time, people who talk about these sorts of things aren't interested in talking about anything deeper anyways, so I can just let go of anything I'm trying to talk about and maybe try to derail the meaningless chatter into something that has some sort of substance... for the sake of all involved. :p

Then I'm sitting there while they are talking, considering: "What if I say this right now? How will that change the conversation?" or something like "What if I interact with this person in some other way?" those sorts of things... "Instead of letting my usual "UGH" reactive patterns run, what if I decide to respond in a different way?"... It becomes a sort of game. So the boring droning chatter becomes actually quite fun in a way. :jumping:

I think most people have no idea how, or aren't aware of the possibility of the fact that 2 or more people can just sit there in silence. No one actually needs to say anything, usually. There comes that moment of silence that most people consider an awkward moment, but why does it have to be awkward? That just social conditioning. We can just sit here, be present with each other and say nothing... it's probably better most of the time anyways...
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Re: People phasing out of conversation

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:02 pm

Alot of it is cultural too.

If you've ever spent time around Native American folks, some of them have no issues being quiet for long periods of time. I've also noticed that if I do work that took me away from constant talking, I would begin to lose the desire for it a bit. My wife enjoys just hanging out quietly together, even though she's a gabby lady, who does a "talky" job for a living..so there is hope for everyone!
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is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: People phasing out of conversation

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:03 pm

Huh?
Uh.......What ....were you saying something?
:rolling:
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Re: People phasing out of conversation

Postby justsit » Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:05 pm

Roland wrote:I think most people have no idea how, or aren't aware of the possibility of the fact that 2 or more people can just sit there in silence. No one actually needs to say anything, usually. There comes that moment of silence that most people consider an awkward moment, but why does it have to be awkward? That just social conditioning. We can just sit here, be present with each other and say nothing...

In 2006 when the Dalai Lama came to Washington DC to receive the Congressional medal, I was a volunteer for the local Gelugpa center. I helped transport lamas and whatever else was needed. One evening there were about 6 or 7 high lamas staying at a home, and they were all sitting in the living room after the day's program. I was helping in the next room. There was no TV or music, and no conversation at all in the living room for at least 2 hours. They just sat together.
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Re: People phasing out of conversation

Postby duckfiasco » Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:55 pm

I also sometimes get asked "what's wrong?" if we lapse into silence and I'm just enjoying the person's company :thinking:

Let's have a DW get-together where no one says anything and we don't feel awkward about it :rolleye:
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Re: People phasing out of conversation

Postby Roland » Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:54 am

justsit wrote:
Roland wrote:I think most people have no idea how, or aren't aware of the possibility of the fact that 2 or more people can just sit there in silence. No one actually needs to say anything, usually. There comes that moment of silence that most people consider an awkward moment, but why does it have to be awkward? That just social conditioning. We can just sit here, be present with each other and say nothing...

In 2006 when the Dalai Lama came to Washington DC to receive the Congressional medal, I was a volunteer for the local Gelugpa center. I helped transport lamas and whatever else was needed. One evening there were about 6 or 7 high lamas staying at a home, and they were all sitting in the living room after the day's program. I was helping in the next room. There was no TV or music, and no conversation at all in the living room for at least 2 hours. They just sat together.


That is amazing :bow:

duckfiasco wrote:I also sometimes get asked "what's wrong?" if we lapse into silence and I'm just enjoying the person's company :thinking:


This resonates with me so much. I have been asked that question my whole life from family members. They assume it must be depression or something but it is actually the opposite.. contentment... nothing needs to be said at the moment.

duckfiasco wrote:Let's have a DW get-together where no one says anything and we don't feel awkward about it :rolleye:


We can all sit in a room together and not say a word to each other. We shall stare down at our phones and communicate through DW.
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Re: People phasing out of conversation

Postby Madeliaette » Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:58 pm

Just a few points from my experience:
* I don't - and won't - own a cell phone. This makes people consider me old and foolish. To me it is a piece of tech-junk that would interrupt my life even more than the landline! Just another 'essential gadget' to deplete the earth of its resources and fill it with waste... like the tv i dont own, car i dont drive, heater i dont warm up with, dishwasher i never replaced my hands with, microwave i have no inclination toward, washing machine I only needed when my son was in cloth diapers...
* Since my father passed away last September, I have spent time going to visit some of his elderly friends. I have found that the thing they want/need the MOST is someone to sit down and listen to them - hear their side of things, understand their story, see it from their viewpoint... It has made me notice how rushed many everyday conversations are. I do not know if it is only the over 40's who miss not having someone LISTEN to them, or whether the young just don't know any different/have no need of it. But since experiencing the change from fear, misery, distress into contentment, relief, relaxation when someone can talk and be listened to I kinda know what you mean.
* I wonder what lies ahead for this planet's inhabitants. The more away from tech gadgets and toward nature I go, the happier I am - and the planet benefits too - but with so few people willing to step back to what worked before from this modern 'whoosh-whoosh-want it now' world, I cannot see the old ways returning. I just hope that something better lies the other side of this bridge we humans are building, cos most of us are traveling over it....
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Re: People phasing out of conversation

Postby porpoise » Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:50 pm

Roland wrote:I've been experiencing this phenomena more often lately, many times in a short period, especially with family during the holidays. Someone will ask me a question or say something to me. I will answer or start explaning something to them and I can see their attention drift off in the middle of me speaking.


I think this kind of behaviour is actually quite rude and should be challenged.
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Re: People phasing out of conversation

Postby Roland » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:05 am

Madeliaette wrote:Just a few points from my experience:
* I don't - and won't - own a cell phone. This makes people consider me old and foolish. To me it is a piece of tech-junk that would interrupt my life even more than the landline! Just another 'essential gadget' to deplete the earth of its resources and fill it with waste... like the tv i dont own, car i dont drive, heater i dont warm up with, dishwasher i never replaced my hands with, microwave i have no inclination toward, washing machine I only needed when my son was in cloth diapers...


I think the majority of people are convinced, at some level, that they now need their phones to survive. Its an extra appendage and people go into panic, a sort of phantom pain when they misplace it, or leave it at home.

Madeliaette wrote:* Since my father passed away last September, I have spent time going to visit some of his elderly friends. I have found that the thing they want/need the MOST is someone to sit down and listen to them - hear their side of things, understand their story, see it from their viewpoint... It has made me notice how rushed many everyday conversations are. I do not know if it is only the over 40's who miss not having someone LISTEN to them, or whether the young just don't know any different/have no need of it. But since experiencing the change from fear, misery, distress into contentment, relief, relaxation when someone can talk and be listened to I kinda know what you mean.
* I wonder what lies ahead for this planet's inhabitants. The more away from tech gadgets and toward nature I go, the happier I am - and the planet benefits too - but with so few people willing to step back to what worked before from this modern 'whoosh-whoosh-want it now' world, I cannot see the old ways returning. I just hope that something better lies the other side of this bridge we humans are building, cos most of us are traveling over it....


I'm with you. I'm working more towards less items, to simply life as much as is practical for my current circumstances and beyond. I don't see the technology being sustainable. If population is still growing, the planet is becoming more depleted and technology exponentially improves and the price exponentially decreases, along with all other world-scale events going on, I don't see it lasting... I'm less neurotic when I have less things to distract and I can stand in a garden barefoot... I see everything is reaching a crescendo... and it may start to shake at the peak, more violently until things start falling to pieces. At least some aspects, anyways...

porpoise wrote:
Roland wrote:I've been experiencing this phenomena more often lately, many times in a short period, especially with family during the holidays. Someone will ask me a question or say something to me. I will answer or start explaning something to them and I can see their attention drift off in the middle of me speaking.


I think this kind of behaviour is actually quite rude and should be challenged.


It depends on the circumstance I suppose, like how well I know the person or if it's even worth it. Usually, once I recognize there is no more listening, I will stop talking. Then wait, to see if there is a recovery, if they recognized that they stopped listening. Usually they will just start talking about something else... then I might interrupt, and say something like "I was actually saying something, but that's alright, go ahead".... or I just let it go.
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Re: People phasing out of conversation

Postby porpoise » Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:03 am

PadmaVonSamba wrote:Huh?
Uh.......What ....were you saying something?
:rolling:
.
.
.



:applause:
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Re: People phasing out of conversation

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:16 pm

If people stop paying attention to you when you are talking to them,it might be that you are boring them.
It can also be a matter of subtle social clues not connecting. I had a friend who had Aspergers syndrome,
and due to the way he communicated,
or perhaps more due to the fact tha tother people were not used to the way he communicated,
they often ignored him in the middle of a conversation.
This is an unfortunate situation.
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The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.
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Re: People phasing out of conversation

Postby AlexanderS » Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:25 pm

I experience this all the time. Very often with my family. However I'm also myself a chronic day dreamer and if I get stuck with an invidual who talks like waterfall without any point or humour, i have to make a real effort not to escape in my thoughts or simply get away. Usually though when I'm in company with someone I try to make an effort to be fully present. But yes, I find the modern phenemon of virtual interaction taking presedence over actual face to face talks quite scary. Like someone mentioned, it's impossible to find anyone you can be with who you can actually enjoy the silence with. Our need to constantly stimulated is greater than ever.

Being a young guy(26) who have grown with a computer, I can actually testify that something I have sorely missed is intimacy.
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Re: People phasing out of conversation

Postby justsit » Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:29 pm

Roland wrote:... I see everything is reaching a crescendo... and it may start to shake at the peak, more violently until things start falling to pieces. At least some aspects, anyways...


This reminds me the Beatles song, A Day in the Life.
The crescendos begin with the section from 1:56-2:16; the second, from 3:52-4:20, then the long reverb echo out to silence. It always struck me as a metaphor on several levels - time, human life, civilization, enlightenment. The Beatles were brilliant.

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Re: People phasing out of conversation

Postby Jikan » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:32 pm

I had this problem of phasing out in conversation in early September, after I'd been in a car crash at the end of August. It turned out to be a symptom of a concussion I'd had without being aware of it. Luckily, one of our sangha members noticed it, pulled me aside, and strongly encouraged me to seek medical attention. I checked out OK after surviving the MRI and so on, followed the protocol for recovery, and now I'm more or less coherent again*.

I bring this up because this phenomenon can be a symptom of a serious medical issue.

*I'm more or less coherent now, right?
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Re: People phasing out of conversation

Postby Simon E. » Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:01 pm

Thursday.
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Re: People phasing out of conversation

Postby reddust » Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:07 pm

Jikan wrote:I had this problem of phasing out in conversation in early September, after I'd been in a car crash at the end of August.


I'm glad you survived and are okay :twothumbsup:

I'm phasing out a lot lately. Mine is physical as well, pre-menopause symptoms, getting old sucks. Regulating diet, exercise and being patient with myself really helps. Thankfully this will only last a couple years and I'll be free! Getting old isn't really that bad :sage:
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Re: People phasing out of conversation

Postby Jikan » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:15 am

Simon E. wrote:Thursday.


Laws yes. Goes better with sauerkraut. Look there's a kitty ca
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Re: People phasing out of conversation

Postby Roland » Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:11 am

justsit wrote:
Roland wrote:... I see everything is reaching a crescendo... and it may start to shake at the peak, more violently until things start falling to pieces. At least some aspects, anyways...


This reminds me the Beatles song, A Day in the Life.
The crescendos begin with the section from 1:56-2:16; the second, from 3:52-4:20, then the long reverb echo out to silence. It always struck me as a metaphor on several levels - time, human life, civilization, enlightenment. The Beatles were brilliant.



Wow, that is a great connection. I haven't heard this track in a long time. One of my favorites.
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Re: People phasing out of conversation

Postby Roland » Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:12 am

Jikan wrote:I bring this up because this phenomenon can be a symptom of a serious medical issue.


Glad you are well. What you said here is something I fear about someone very close to me...... you put the nail in the coffin (ok, inappropriate metaphor/pun...)
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