Experiencing Kundalini Energy While Meditation Walking

Discuss your personal experience with the Dharma here. How has it enriched your life? What challenges does it present?

Experiencing Kundalini Energy While Meditation Walking

Postby Fqmorris » Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:17 pm

I have been mediating for about a year, now doing walking meditation in a 2 hr continuous period once a day. For the last month very strong body sensations have become increasingly prominent, and their strength has made it very easy to avoid most mental distractions while walking. From the beginning these sensations have seemed very organized in their presentation, and increasingly of late they have started to direct some bodily movements. First it was a simple thing like a pushing up of my chest into a strong backward arch, or a pushing my torso forward and down as if to touch my toes. With each day these energy forces have been increasing in my walks, and last week the forward bends actually pulled me down into a deep squat with my torso pushing forward between my knees, very much like a yoga position. Eventually the energy released and then pulled me slowly back to standing up so i could continue walking. I have been very careful to not grasp nor push away these energy experiences, although I could have halted them at any time if I'd wanted to.

Yesterday after that same squat and release to standing occurred, I got the feeling that my body wanted me to stop walking, which I did. Then very very slowly my body started walking me, all by itself. From my earlier super slow walking I was very familiar with all the balancing acts one negotiates when walking from one foot to the other, and my body started doing them on its own. As I neared the wall where I would have to turn around, I wondered what would happen, and about three feet away from the wall my legs turned me around in about five baby steps, and then started walking forward again for a short while. Then my body stopped, I breathed deep, and waited for the next thing. Subsequent involuntary stretches and other yoga-like positions happened, but nothing so dramatic as seeing my body walk itself without my volition.

My question is: How does this seemingly Kundalini kriya movement fit with tradition Bhuddism? I was unaware of this kind of involuntary energy movement before this started happening to me. It is a little bit troubling to me.
Fqmorris
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:39 pm

Re: Experiencing Kundalini Energy While Meditation Walking

Postby Simon E. » Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:58 pm

Get thee to a teacher.

:namaste:
Simon E.
 
Posts: 2543
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Experiencing Kundalini Energy While Meditation Walking

Postby reddust » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:09 pm

From my experience with body bending energy, you keep with your assigned meditation and don't let the energy move you away from "object" of meditation. Yoga, diet, don't smoke or drink alcohol, staying away from TV, other kinds media, and build healthy relationships, stay away from stressful negative relationships, really helps straighten out the kinks so you don't feel like bending. At one retreat I fought the energy and went blind for a night so you need to use equanimity, don't fight it, don't cling to it, find a good teacher or you may end up wasting your time or hurting yourself, including going crazy.
Mind and mental events are concepts, mere postulations within the three realms of samsara Longchenpa .... A link to my Garden, Art and Foodie blog Scratch Living
User avatar
reddust
 
Posts: 761
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:29 am
Location: Oregon

Re: Experiencing Kundalini Energy While Meditation Walking

Postby padma norbu » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:31 pm

I personally don't understand it at all. When I was doing specifically Kundalini-awakening exercises, nothing happened (fortunately, I later thought). But, when I did some simple chakra meditations, I had two different experiences that freaked me out and it happened almost immediately because I certainly wasn't putting much time into the meditations back then. The first was a feeling of being pulled up by my belly, as if a hook was inserted through my lower abdomen and yanked me upward. It didn't hurt. The second, was a feeling of being pushed down and I had a mind's eye vision of a blueish beam of light entering through my back at roughly the heart chakra, I suppose. I was lying face down and couldn't move at all. When I finally was able to move my body, it was somewhat like the abrupt jerk that happens when you pick up the milk carton in the fridge and find it is empty. I felt like I had "fought off" the light beam for control of my body and won... so that was pretty much the last of those meditations for me. That was using this book: http://www.amazon.com/Meditate-Using-Ch ... 0971455805

I am sometimes bummed that Tibetan mantras don't seem to work as quickly as these did for me.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
User avatar
padma norbu
 
Posts: 2000
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 1:10 am

Re: Experiencing Kundalini Energy While Meditation Walking

Postby reddust » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:38 pm

Mine happened at an SN Geonka retreat. The energy just kept getting stronger over successive retreats until one retreat I felt like a tube of toothpaste getting squeezed out from the bottom up until the top of my head popped off. Lots of lights, pain, bliss, totally changed how I saw the world too, but scared the holy crap out of me. It wasn't a vipassana moment so I just used equanimity and let the six flags show pass. Nothing like that has happened since, almost 20ish years ago. I had lots of questions for years and finally figured out I had a kundalini attack. I figured I was lucky I only went blind for a night and felt blissful for a couple years. This can seriously screw with people physically and mentally, I can't figure out why people want to have this kind of experience, it was awful scary and painful. My first Dharma teacher was right Upekkha is very important.
Mind and mental events are concepts, mere postulations within the three realms of samsara Longchenpa .... A link to my Garden, Art and Foodie blog Scratch Living
User avatar
reddust
 
Posts: 761
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:29 am
Location: Oregon

Re: Experiencing Kundalini Energy While Meditation Walking

Postby Fqmorris » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:08 pm

Not fighting nor clinging to the various initial body sensations is how it strengthened to the point where the sensations became powerful enough to make the body move. It seems that they movements are all purposefully aimed at healing my chronic upper back, shoulders, and neck tension that for the past year have caused nerve weakness in both my hands. I've been going through a nasty divorce after a 28 year marriage, which accounts for most of that stress, and is why I started Bhuddist meditation and daily listening to dharma tapes by Joeseph Goldstein, Pema Chodron, Thích Nhất Hạnh, etc. in addition to my daily two hours walking, I do yoga, self massages, and other exercises to release that back tension. And it seems that this kundalini energy is all focused on taking that back/shoulder healing to where I can't. So it's possible that this healing aspect is the insight I'm supposed to learn.
Fqmorris
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:39 pm

Re: Experiencing Kundalini Energy While Meditation Walking

Postby reddust » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:15 pm

Fqmorris wrote:Not fighting nor clinging to the various initial body sensations is how it strengthened to the point where the sensations became powerful enough to make the body move. It seems that they movements are all purposefully aimed at healing my chronic upper back, shoulders, and neck tension that for the past year have caused nerve weakness in both my hands. I've been going through a nasty divorce after a 28 year marriage, which accounts for most of that stress, and is why I started Bhuddist meditation and daily listening to dharma tapes by Joeseph Goldstein, Pema Chodron, Thích Nhất Hạnh, etc. in addition to my daily two hours walking, I do yoga, self massages, and other exercises to release that back tension. And it seems that this kundalini energy is all focused on taking that back/shoulder healing to where I can't. So it's possible that this healing aspect is the insight I'm supposed to learn.


From what I've researched over the years and my own experience what is important is equanimity/upekkha, keeping a good diet, avoiding stress and the kinks will be worked out, like your bad back. If you aren't looking for this it's just like any other phenomena that happens in meditation. As I was told by my teachers just keep on meditating. But I had a teacher to talk to, several that knew me very well. Even then I felt alone because no one would tell me what was happening. But at least I had people I could talk to that knew me and could help me stay on a level keel. Be sure and stay in touch now or I will worry about you :namaste:

EDIT: After what happened to me at that retreat I had to change my life for the better, there was no choice and that has not been fun. Just a warning to be careful what you do. I don't know if this is true for everyone who has gone through this, but from what I've read it's common. You'll get really sick, get lots of pain if you don't eat well and take care of yourself.
Mind and mental events are concepts, mere postulations within the three realms of samsara Longchenpa .... A link to my Garden, Art and Foodie blog Scratch Living
User avatar
reddust
 
Posts: 761
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:29 am
Location: Oregon

Re: Experiencing Kundalini Energy While Meditation Walking

Postby Fqmorris » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:31 pm

Thanks. From the start of feeling the body sensations before the spontaneous movements, I realized that equinimity was the lesson to focus on. I will keep in touch here. I should probably also try to find a good teacher, but I'm not sure how. I live in New Orleans.
Fqmorris
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:39 pm

Re: Experiencing Kundalini Energy While Meditation Walking

Postby padma norbu » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:41 pm

Fqmorris wrote:Thanks. From the start of feeling the body sensations before the spontaneous movements, I realized that equinimity was the lesson to focus on. I will keep in touch here. I should probably also try to find a good teacher, but I'm not sure how. I live in New Orleans.


how does one apply equanimity through these experiences? If you or reddust can tell me, maybe I'll dust off that old meditation book and try again. :D I understand why reddust says she can't understand why anyone would try to have these experiences, but sometimes I think any definite result seems better than maybe progress that is so subtle it is almost undetectable.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
User avatar
padma norbu
 
Posts: 2000
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 1:10 am

Re: Experiencing Kundalini Energy While Meditation Walking

Postby Fqmorris » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:53 pm

My initial body sensations were often pleasant and sometimes a bit painful or irritating. They were always interesting and almost always shows some pattern or order. Equinimity is required to not try and prolong good sensations nor get rid of unpleasant ones. One form of getting away from unpleasant sensations is to let the mind wander off from them instead of keeping focus on them. I think the same goes for these movements. They have so far been no more painful than a yoga session, and it's a pain that is healing, but requires calm. They are scary because they are so foreign, and require a form of trust to let them continue.
Fqmorris
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:39 pm

Re: Experiencing Kundalini Energy While Meditation Walking

Postby reddust » Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:03 am

padma norbu wrote:
Fqmorris wrote:Thanks. From the start of feeling the body sensations before the spontaneous movements, I realized that equinimity was the lesson to focus on. I will keep in touch here. I should probably also try to find a good teacher, but I'm not sure how. I live in New Orleans.


how does one apply equanimity through these experiences? If you or reddust can tell me, maybe I'll dust off that old meditation book and try again. :D I understand why reddust says she can't understand why anyone would try to have these experiences, but sometimes I think any definite result seems better than maybe progress that is so subtle it is almost undetectable.


Prior to this retreat, from other retreats I had a heavy sensation around the head like wearing a hat and like a rope tugging at the top of my head, the sensation stayed with me after retreats as well….The equanimity I am speaking of is what happens when the body settles down and the mind is not distracted by data from the sense doors. My first meditation was on the breath (anapanasati) which settled the mind and body down, focused mind to a fine point and I place focus on body sensation, per Goenka's process…. Eventually the mind would settle down to the point where thoughts and body sensation just kind of went to the background, very even subtle vibration through the body. Sitting was easy and so was focus on what ever subject you wish, this isn't NOT equanimity found in the fourth Jhana. I don't know what it is called, but I was not moved by sense data and even more important it worked, using the breath through the nostrils as focus when the pain became really distracting. I felt as if my back was being torn apart, like I was dying. I actually reached back and touched the area to see if I was bleeding. I thought maybe I was sprouting wings lol….that's where the pain was the worst by my shoulder blades. No wings though and the pain past, I can't remember exactly when during that retreat it was so long ago. That's when the colored lights came, and then bliss and a progression of other visions. The visions and bliss eventually wore themselves out but I was changed for good after that and I had a set path I cannot walk away from now. It's lonely and not very fun, plus I don't get the lovely bliss I used to get in meditation. LIfe is just life now after so many years but I still have to behave or I will pay. I kind of miss the six flag show of lights and visions :popcorn:
Mind and mental events are concepts, mere postulations within the three realms of samsara Longchenpa .... A link to my Garden, Art and Foodie blog Scratch Living
User avatar
reddust
 
Posts: 761
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:29 am
Location: Oregon

Re: Experiencing Kundalini Energy While Meditation Walking

Postby padma norbu » Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:52 am

Hi Reddust,

That's interesting! I saw a documentary about people teaching prisoners in India to meditate using Goenka's method of vipassana. I got the feeling it was not a Buddhist meditation and I just looked him up and see that he taught non-sectarian, so it is basically a Buddhist method, I guess, without any religious talk. I remember the prisoners were breaking down and crying and terrifically changed. They all looked like meek children as they exited the retreat, hugging one another, hugging the prison guards, weeping, etc. This is a method anyone can do with no initiation, right? I feel like it's the most basic breathing type of meditation that everyone seems to teach and which I could never do for very long, but I don't know very much about Goenka's method, so I could be completely wrong on that.

I'm curious what a few of your sentences mean...
reddust wrote:The visions and bliss eventually wore themselves out but I was changed for good after that and I had a set path I cannot walk away from now.


Do you say that because you mean now you know there is definitely something to it? Or do you mean because there would be negative repurcussions if you walked away from it (like hell realms or something)?

reddust wrote:It's lonely and not very fun, plus I don't get the lovely bliss I used to get in meditation.


Why is it lonely? Why is it not very fun?

reddust wrote:LIfe is just life now after so many years but I still have to behave or I will pay.


Do you mean after a kundalini awakening, if you do something naughty, you will have pain? Or are you referring to something else (like hell realms)?
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
User avatar
padma norbu
 
Posts: 2000
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 1:10 am

Re: Experiencing Kundalini Energy While Meditation Walking

Postby reddust » Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:14 am

padma norbu wrote:Hi Reddust,

That's interesting! I saw a documentary about people teaching prisoners in India to meditate using Goenka's method of vipassana. I got the feeling it was not a Buddhist meditation and I just looked him up and see that he taught non-sectarian, so it is basically a Buddhist method, I guess, without any religious talk. I remember the prisoners were breaking down and crying and terrifically changed. They all looked like meek children as they exited the retreat, hugging one another, hugging the prison guards, weeping, etc. This is a method anyone can do with no initiation, right? I feel like it's the most basic breathing type of meditation that everyone seems to teach and which I could never do for very long, but I don't know very much about Goenka's method, so I could be completely wrong on that.


reddust wrote:You must take refuge and drop all other practices during retreat. It is absolutely a Buddhist practice


padma norbu wrote:I'm curious what a few of your sentences mean…

reddust wrote:The visions and bliss eventually wore themselves out but I was changed for good after that and I had a set path I cannot walk away from now. I had all the symptoms of kundalini waking up and I had to let it go, which I did.


padma norbu wrote:Do you say that because you mean now you know there is definitely something to it? Or do you mean because there would be negative repurcussions if you walked away from it (like hell realms or something)?
reddust wrote:I lost my panic attacks, flooding emotions and thoughts brought on from being sexually abused as a child, no more night terrors, my rage was totally gone. I could see clearly what I needed to fix in my life.


reddust wrote:It's lonely and not very fun, plus I don't get the lovely bliss I used to get in meditation.


padma norbu wrote:Why is it lonely? Why is it not very fun?
reddust wrote:No one wanted me to change in my family, that would mean they would have to change as well, I was no longer the scape goat. My friends did not understand the change in me and my total focus on Dharma. It was basically an over night change. I was no longer a fearful sad person.


reddust wrote:LIfe is just life now after so many years but I still have to behave or I will pay.


padma norbu wrote:Do you mean after a kundalini awakening, if you do something naughty, you will have pain? Or are you referring to something else (like hell realms)?

reddust wrote:Doing something naughty as in physical pain from drinking alcohol, breaking vows, or eating food my body can't handle or being friendly with really negative angry bitter mean people, who enjoy hurting other people, like my ex husband and some of my family and friends. I get instant feedback that is really painful when I, I really don't have the words for this, I get instant feedback when I stray of the path. I read Kundalini is never mentioned in Buddhist practice because its just another phenomena to let go of. That's exactly what my teachers told me, the meditation teachers and my Dharma teacher never mentioned kundalini they just said, "go sit down and meditate some more."
Last edited by reddust on Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mind and mental events are concepts, mere postulations within the three realms of samsara Longchenpa .... A link to my Garden, Art and Foodie blog Scratch Living
User avatar
reddust
 
Posts: 761
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:29 am
Location: Oregon

Re: Experiencing Kundalini Energy While Meditation Walking

Postby padma norbu » Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:19 am

interrresting... thanks. It's good to know kundalini can be "let go of." I had heard if it happens and you don't like it, oh well, you're stuck with it now.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
User avatar
padma norbu
 
Posts: 2000
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 1:10 am

Re: Experiencing Kundalini Energy While Meditation Walking

Postby reddust » Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:23 am

padma norbu wrote:interrresting... thanks. It's good to know kundalini can be "let go of." I had heard if it happens and you don't like it, oh well, you're stuck with it now.


Yes it made me very sensitive, I have to be careful but in a way the world is so beautiful now. I see things and feel emotions very clearly, like when I was a kid before I got hurt so badly.
Mind and mental events are concepts, mere postulations within the three realms of samsara Longchenpa .... A link to my Garden, Art and Foodie blog Scratch Living
User avatar
reddust
 
Posts: 761
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:29 am
Location: Oregon

Re: Experiencing Kundalini Energy While Meditation Walking

Postby padma norbu » Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:08 pm

Just now, I pulled that book off the shelf and see it has very nice and concise, detailed instructions on Kumbhaka. It took me about 5 minutes or less to read and I understood it perfectly. There's no instructions on counting off breath cycles, but explained the locks and reasoning for the locks (how and why it works) very well in a way that was not even clear to me from an in-person instruction and made it easy to understand the point of it all and give faith that this practice actually makes sense.

I just opened up my Yantra Yoga book in which I store some notes on a slip of paper when I was receiving the teaching in-person and the paper seems to be lost. In it's place I just have a book mark on the kumbhaka breathing charts. That sucks. I wish I had kept up the practice from when I first learned it. Now I can't remember the finger-snap timing patterns and the basic visualization is a little foggy, too. Hopefully, all of that is in the pages of Yantra Yoga somewhere.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
User avatar
padma norbu
 
Posts: 2000
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 1:10 am

Re: Experiencing Kundalini Energy While Meditation Walking

Postby reddust » Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:47 pm

padma norbu wrote:Just now, I pulled that book off the shelf and see it has very nice and concise, detailed instructions on Kumbhaka. It took me about 5 minutes or less to read and I understood it perfectly. There's no instructions on counting off breath cycles, but explained the locks and reasoning for the locks (how and why it works) very well in a way that was not even clear to me from an in-person instruction and made it easy to understand the point of it all and give faith that this practice actually makes sense.

I just opened up my Yantra Yoga book in which I store some notes on a slip of paper when I was receiving the teaching in-person and the paper seems to be lost. In it's place I just have a book mark on the kumbhaka breathing charts. That sucks. I wish I had kept up the practice from when I first learned it. Now I can't remember the finger-snap timing patterns and the basic visualization is a little foggy, too. Hopefully, all of that is in the pages of Yantra Yoga somewhere.


My breathing changes just like in Kumbhaka with the cycles in meditation. Breath will become subtler, subtler, the gaps between breath longer and… disappear. Then I will take a deep breath in and out without making it so and this will happen over and over again until body sensation devolves and so does breath. Sometimes it will feel as if the whole body is expanding, like breathing through the pores rather than through the nose, this while cycle as well. But I don't get the body bending energy anymore nor huge shots of bliss and stuff. I wonder if Kumbhaka came from yogis watching what happens naturally and making a system of it?
Mind and mental events are concepts, mere postulations within the three realms of samsara Longchenpa .... A link to my Garden, Art and Foodie blog Scratch Living
User avatar
reddust
 
Posts: 761
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:29 am
Location: Oregon

Re: Experiencing Kundalini Energy While Meditation Walking

Postby padma norbu » Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:00 pm

I don't know, but it's pretty interesting how they figured it out. The neck lock forces the naturally rising kundalini back downward and the butt lock pulls it up so it may begin to rise a little. The push-down abdomen lock concentrates it all so that it will eventually spring upward and the mental visualization of its rising aids the process. The book I have says we are little microcosms, which of course I had read in many a new age book, but this is a decent and legit manual of ancient teachings. The chakras are the seven planets and the sun and moon fit in there somewhere. Apparently, when the kundalini rises all the way up, you transcend your little personality and catch a glimpse of cosmic kundalini (or something; I only read 1 page to get all this info and I didn't really try to remember it). But, the kundalini force is supposedly everywhere, not just coiled up in your belly. :)
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
User avatar
padma norbu
 
Posts: 2000
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 1:10 am

Re: Experiencing Kundalini Energy While Meditation Walking

Postby reddust » Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:22 pm

padma norbu wrote:I don't know, but it's pretty interesting how they figured it out. The neck lock forces the naturally rising kundalini back downward and the butt lock pulls it up so it may begin to rise a little. The push-down abdomen lock concentrates it all so that it will eventually spring upward and the mental visualization of its rising aids the process. The book I have says we are little microcosms, which of course I had read in many a new age book, but this is a decent and legit manual of ancient teachings. The chakras are the seven planets and the sun and moon fit in there somewhere. Apparently, when the kundalini rises all the way up, you transcend your little personality and catch a glimpse of cosmic kundalini (or something; I only read 1 page to get all this info and I didn't really try to remember it). But, the kundalini force is supposedly everywhere, not just coiled up in your belly. :)


You know with body scanning in vipassana while in deep meditation the mind hits all sorts of biological systems. Seriously shots of bliss when the mind touches certain areas of body and you hit all the chakras too. I never fooled around with it though, kind of thought how cool it was sitting there and blissing out but then I thought what a waste of time, I am supposed to be scanning and I felt guilty, way to fun to be seriously meditating (hahaha). At that time I had no idea what chakras were, come to think about it! When I started working with the Tantric systems using visualization and the body I saw how the methods were similar regarding triggering energy. The tantric practice uses and works with our body/mind while the vipassana method is passive, all systems are seen equally with bare awareness. When I had that energy pop out the top of my head I did see a ton of awesome visions. After that I still see visions, they are not as overwhelming at retreat but I think they are related to body energy and systems, there are cycles of light I see with my eyes closed that go with the subtle breaths and vibrations in the body but they are not used at all, just viewed with equanimity when I practice vipassana. Interesting, I just read or heard that all our planets have unique electoral magnetic pulses that correspond with cycles of our mind. But don't google it you get a lot of really weird stuff…gosh I may of heard this on Coast to CoastAM and it may totally be newagey.

May the force be with you :namaste: I gotta go paint and stop procrastinating.
Mind and mental events are concepts, mere postulations within the three realms of samsara Longchenpa .... A link to my Garden, Art and Foodie blog Scratch Living
User avatar
reddust
 
Posts: 761
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:29 am
Location: Oregon

Re: Experiencing Kundalini Energy While Meditation Walking

Postby Motova » Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:37 pm

I have experienced these for a long time, however I never thought much of them because I thought the "Kundalini kriya movement" was completely involuntary. I experience it like an intuitive series of movements to unkink myself; a very strong inclination to stop what I am doing and drop to the ground to participate in some spontaneous body contortions. I just let them happen, just like all kundalini stuff. You'll get used to it. Equanimity, equanimity, equanimity.

I also have neck tension that has resulted in weak nerves in my wrists, I wonder if that is just a coincidence...? Luckily I am seeing a physiotherapist and it's getting better, pm if you want and I can give you a good exercise for stretching the neck.
Motova
 
Posts: 274
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:05 pm

Next

Return to Personal Experience

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Tanaduk and 3 guests

>