oushi wrote: invisiblediamond wrote:
oushi wrote:Sorry but you introduced nothing but at belief... in unborn. Or rather in something that is hiding behind this
You are restating your point while ignoring mine. Unborn is not a belief. Unless space is a faith.
Beside the fact that space is a faith, unborn is a belief. As it was stated above, belief is everything outside ones experience. You may be trying to point at an experience which is not yet described (thus unborn), but you cannot escape the fact that "unbord" is a description. By labeling an unborn experience, you are giving it a birth into idea. That idea was born 2500 years ago, was carried for centuries, and will probably die some day. You cannot do anything more then believe in it. To reach your ears it had to be born, otherwise how would you know about it? For us, Buddha gave birth to an idea he called Nirvana. We are free to believe it or not, but we cannot go beyond this belief.
space is a faith ?
unborn is not a belief, you can experience it any moment.
from your example i think you have the wrong understanding what unborn means. sorry though i can not explain that to you. but that is what madhyamaka points out to, and with logic, analysis you get a direct experience, of the unborn.
if there is no unborn, there is no nirvana, there is no life after death, since if it is not the unborn that survives after death there is nothing that survives death and impermanence.
although you can go ahead and point out that belief in afterlife is a belief. there are many beings like padmasambhava and great many beings who have experienced the after death state and returned to tell about it in the tibetan history.
also it is proven fact in physics that energy cannot disappear, it can only change and transform.
what you say is very nihilistic in buddhist perspective. you can only believe in it. its the exact opposite of what buddha intended.
'' do not believe merely what i say but analyze it and prove it to be right yourself''
and also when you say you can not do nothing else except to believe in nirvana is false and just a belief and i would say a wrong view from a buddhist perspective, since the advice is to practice ,analyze and experience it first hand, so that it is not a belief. what obstructs you in reaching that is the belief that it is not possible. which is sad.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....
In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….