Sherab Dorje wrote:
KonchokZoepa wrote:if emptiness is not remedy to samsara then i can throw my practice into the gutter since there is no other way to be realeased from samsara other than realizing emptiness.
Samsara is something other than emptiness (dependent arising)? Now you really have to come up with a quote!
PS It seems to me that your disencantment with Vajrayana (in another thread you started) may be based in a fundamental misinterpretation of some very basic concepts. Your misunderstanding may the cause of the dissonance rather than Vajrayana per se.
no i dont have to come up with a quote since i am not interested in finding one at the moment. what i meant to say that even if everything is emptiness, samsara included, i agree and i did not meant to say otherwise. but we in samsara do not live in or with emptiness per se. you can say we do but then explain me why do you still encounter samsaric suffering and why are you not enlightened. and what you said '' samsara is other than emptiness ( dependent arising )? i did not come up with such a claim, so no need for a quote. i couldnt find such anywhere since it is not true.
even if we live in emptiness and everything is emptiness, it doesnt mean that you actually fully realize emptiness, that is why you are in this vicious cycle. that was my point.
if you do not want to look at what i really meant to say, that realizing and actualizing the true meaning of emptiness is the only realization that will bring liberation go ahead and think otherwise. i dont think there is another way. if im wrong please prove it with some quotes or a logical argument, instead of trying to twist the meaning of what i said.
if you believe in inherently existing self or i, obviously you are not in any way connected to your true nature, that is shunyata, even if its all pervading you do not see it, you do not feel it, you do not understand it to a bigger or lesser degree depending on your realization of it.
again i did not say or meant to say anything that your conclusion was from my sentence you quoted. but to give you a question, if you are in samsara, how can you say you are fully in emptiness since you are misunderstanding emptiness completely so you are stuck in samsara, if you would understand emptiness perfectly there would be no difference in life and death, so there is definitely a big difference in realizing shunyata than living in samsara and saying '' it is emptiness ''. i dont argue with that it isn't, but there is a difference in having it as a conceptual structure some reflection due to that conceptual structure, and idea, and the full actual direct naked experience of it.
to answer your PS. dont go to any conclusion since you are wrong. better not to think about any reasons for my disenchantment with vajrayana since you do not have the wisdom eye so you cannot see or know.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....
In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….