Emptiness and omniscience

Discuss your personal experience with the Dharma here. How has it enriched your life? What challenges does it present?

Re: Emptiness and omniscience

Postby oushi » Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:38 pm

Nothing wrote:"beyond"

Where is this "beyond"? Longed wonderland... This is talking about beliefs, desires, dreams. Does it satisfy your thirst?
Lindama wrote:Life as we know it is dualistic.

LIfe as we describe it is dualistic.
Lindama wrote:There are skillful means for living in this earthly plane for dissolving duality like seeing the grasping, seeing the judgements, etc.

Delusion cannot be dissolved. It can be either dropped or disproved.
Lindama wrote:We are spiritual beings and awakening is our spiritual inheritance.

Show me that this is more then just belief, a poetic way of expressing oneself.
LastLegend wrote:It is not about wrong, unpleasant, or pleasant. From what I see, awake in dreams and stop walking on the wrong path. If you get lost on a road and aware of it, simply walk away from that road (samsara)?

What is the right path? What is the goal of this trip?
Is there desire or grasping exerting there?

I do not understand the question. Could you rephrase it?
LastLegend wrote:I've listening to Linjìi in Vietnamese. There is a saying (translated by me), "No abiding, no achieving. What is more to say or think?"

Linji is one of the greatest, and most honest masters of all times. But those teaching are just a memory of his greatness. We can agree that there should be no achieving, no desire, but how and why? Remains a mystery. I have never seen a teaching going beyond this point, because from this point on, one is alone.
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Re: Emptiness and omniscience

Postby Lindama » Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:55 pm

give it up Oushi, just say yes :smile: :smile: you are too close to waste time...

ps: I am not joking!
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Re: Emptiness and omniscience

Postby LastLegend » Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:58 pm

oushi wrote:
What is the right path? What is the goal of this trip?


I thought Bodhidharma said Buddha means to be miraculously aware. My take on this is aware of samsara-awake in dreams.


oushi wrote:
Is there desire or grasping exerting there?

I do not understand the question. Could you rephrase it?


If a thought arises, aware of it as samsaric product, and simply walk away. Is there desire there from walking away?

Same for habitual acts.
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Re: Emptiness and omniscience

Postby Karma Tashi G. » Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:21 pm

Lindama wrote:no worries, K. While you are sitting on the grass, a failed man, you might notice how big the sky is and a wind on your face and how giving up has removed your grasing. Failure is the best when you notice it. :tongue:

Giving life to grasping may be a skillful means for a while, but ah, notice the space ... then the grasping dissolves.

Shameless Old Lady

ps... the one who wants to know never will!
pps... but something can


Shameless Old Lady! When did you break into the empty house? Before Buddha or after Buddha did? :smile:

What is all this talk of grasping come to? I wake up in my cozy bed! DId I grasp to wake up? No, it just happened! I go to bathroom! Did I grasp to go to bathroom? Well sometimes!! My old nose runs and sniffles. Did I grasp to have this? No, not really! Here is my grasping: Sitting in the dark hours, I sure wish that incence would burn down faster than I can go to my warm cozy bed! Oh! I will get up anyway and get warm!
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Re: Emptiness and omniscience

Postby oushi » Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:27 pm

LastLegend wrote:I thought Bodhidharma said Buddha means to be miraculously aware. My take on this is aware of samsara-awake in dreams.

Don't pick from Bodhidharma. Take it whole or drop it whole. He said precisely what is this miraculously aware nature.
"Buddha is Sanskrit for what you call aware, miraculously aware. Responding, arching your brows, blinking your eyes, moving your hands and feet, its all your miraculously aware nature. And this nature is the mind. And the mind is the Buddha. And the Buddha is the path."
Ordinary, isn't it? Nobody is interested in ordinary stuff. Fireworks, omniscience, bliss, joy... that's the stuff!
LastLegend wrote:If a thought arises, aware of it as samsaric product, and simply walk away. Is there desire there from walking away?

Same for habitual acts.

Who is aware of this arising thought? I say to you, there is no one aware of it. This is the whole misconception. Self surrounded and aware of phenomena, is a false concept.
Lindama wrote:give it up Oushi, just say yes you are too close to waste time...

ps: I am not joking!

I hold nothing, I am just pointing to the bag of bricks people are carrying on their back. All polished, decorated, painted... Will you die for those bricks? :thinking:
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Re: Emptiness and omniscience

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:33 pm

Better to carry a bag of bricks on your bag than have a brick as a head! :tongue:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Emptiness and omniscience

Postby oushi » Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:39 pm

Sherab Dorje wrote:Better to carry a bag of bricks on your bag than have a brick as a head! :tongue:

What if both is true? Did you get that recipe for AIDS cure yet? What is stopping you, because I don't think it is modesty.
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Re: Emptiness and omniscience

Postby LastLegend » Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:53 pm

oushi wrote:Don't pick from Bodhidharma. Take it whole or drop it whole. He said precisely what is this miraculously aware nature.
"Buddha is Sanskrit for what you call aware, miraculously aware. Responding, arching your brows, blinking your eyes, moving your hands and feet, its all your miraculously aware nature. And this nature is the mind. And the mind is the Buddha. And the Buddha is the path."
Ordinary, isn't it? Nobody is interested in ordinary stuff. Fireworks, omniscience, bliss, joy... that's the stuff!


Yes, ordinary-simply aware.

Who is aware of this arising thought? I say to you, there is no one aware of it. This is the whole misconception. Self surrounded and aware of phenomena, is a false concept.


Like many I learn to crawl before I learn to walk. How did you learn?

Is there anything wrong with walking away, stop engaging in an act when does not need to; like an actor acting from one impression to the next? Where is grasping?

Many actors have became ordained.
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Re: Emptiness and omniscience

Postby oushi » Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:21 pm

LastLegend wrote:Like many I learn to crawl before I learn to walk. How did you learn?

So, you believe that there is something to learn, that you need to become someone else. How did I learn? What did I learn? I just ask uncomfortable questions, over and over again. Truth should handle simple questions, even if they are uncomfortable. I learnt nothing, I am just honest.
LastLegend wrote:Is there anything wrong with walking away, stop engaging in an act when does not need to

There is nothing wrong until you make something important out of it. The cure becomes the poison...
LastLegend wrote:like an actor acting from one impression to the next? Where is grasping?

Where is the actor, who is he? We just see acts, but never an actor. Grasping is there as long as there is an idea of the one grasping. It arises because you believe that you can benefit from it. Do you know what is the source of the word "person"? If is from Greek "prosophon", a mask used in theater.
Last edited by oushi on Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Emptiness and omniscience

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:24 pm

oushi wrote:Did you get that recipe for AIDS cure yet? What is stopping you, because I don't think it is modesty.
None of my teachers claim to be enlightened. Strangely enough, most of the people that claim to be enlightened tend to be the ones that portray the least enlightened qualities.

If any of my teachers, or me, become enlightened I'll be sure to bring you the cure for AIDS immediately. You can be 100% sure of that!

Back to the (intensely boring and pointless) verbal acrobatic show.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Emptiness and omniscience

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:47 pm

As for the "uncomfortable questions" bit. It is a common ploy utilised by those that do not have answers (but are too egotistical to admit that they don't have the answers) to just ask questions. It makes them look enigmatic and probing when in fact they are just trying to cover up their ignorance.

For example:

When you asked "Did you get that recipe for AIDS cure yet? What is stopping you, because I don't think it is modesty."

I could have answered: Where is the disease and where is the cure? Is it always necessary to go? Why not stop? Is modesty a boon or is it a bane?

The "uncomfortable questions".

Note how the answer makes me sound all deep and mystical? Makes it look like I am probing for deeper meaning? Makes it look like I actually give a shit. Basically covers up the fact that I actually have no idea?

The question asked in this thread was basically answered with statements made up until page 2 or 3. Now we are up to page 6 and nothing essential has been said after page 3. We could go on until page 60 using the "uncomfortable questions" approach and still be no closer to any form of truth.
Last edited by Sherab Dorje on Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Emptiness and omniscience

Postby oushi » Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:49 pm

Sherab Dorje wrote:None of my teachers claim to be enlightened.

Maybe they are just modest people. Ask, it's worth trying. Or maybe they know someone enlightened? There are thousands dying every day. It would be simply cruel to keep such an information for themselves. Do you call that Buddha qualities?
Sherab Dorje wrote:Basically covers up the fact that I actually have no idea?

You basically have no idea but big statements. You bring this idea of all-knowing everything about everything. Where did you get it from?
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Re: Emptiness and omniscience

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:19 pm

oushi wrote:Maybe they are just modest people. Ask, it's worth trying. Or maybe they know someone enlightened? There are thousands dying every day. It would be simply cruel to keep such an information for themselves. Do you call that Buddha qualities?
Please refrain from casting aspersions on my teachers. You may wish to go ask your teacher for the cure for AIDS, I would not waste my teachers precious time.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Emptiness and omniscience

Postby KonchokZoepa » Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:24 pm

i think he got it from your behavior. i havent actively read this thread for the last 3 pages since it has been very boring and full of bullcrap.

what kind of vibes i seem to get from you oushi is that you portray yourself like your enlightened but you only intellectualize and intellectualize and make smart statements etc and act smart. its hard to explain but what you are going on in this and some other threads is pointless babble that leads nobody nowhere. its just masturmating with knowledge. its better to just shut up and practice than try to prove in between the lines of your words to others that you have attained realization. it just show's how far away from realization you are.

and this is the same point, that why no one will say they are enlightened, the high lamas, anyone, if you ask them. cause they have nothing to prove and it wont make people believe so. it will just make them look stupid claiming to be enlightened. just like you in this thread.

look in example HHDL, he is humble person who claims to be an ordinary warm hearted being. nothing less nothing more.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: Emptiness and omniscience

Postby oushi » Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:02 pm

Sherab Dorje wrote:
oushi wrote:Maybe they are just modest people. Ask, it's worth trying. Or maybe they know someone enlightened? There are thousands dying every day. It would be simply cruel to keep such an information for themselves. Do you call that Buddha qualities?
Please refrain from casting aspersions on my teachers. You may wish to go ask your teacher for the cure for AIDS, I would not waste my teachers precious time.

Modesty as aspersion... interesting. It seems that for you, saving millions from suffering caused by this horrible disease is a waste of precious time.... bollocks, but you have to defend you views, no matter how stupid they are.
KonchokZoepa wrote:what kind of vibes i seem to get from you oushi is that you portray yourself like your enlightened but you only intellectualize and intellectualize and make smart statements etc and act smart. its hard to explain but what you are going on in this and some other threads is pointless babble that leads nobody nowhere.

Sorry, but this is precisely where it should lead. Nowhere.
KonchokZoepa wrote: its better to just shut up and practice than try to prove in between the lines of your words to others that you have attained realization.

Realization of what? Who is the one who can attain realization? What is that realization you would like to attain? You don't know, but you accuse me of having it. Where is that at?
KonchokZoepa wrote:it just show's how far away from realization you are.

It will show whatever you will project. I am not interested in any type of spiritual attainment, that is why I don't even bother to ask what you mean by realization.
KonchokZoepa wrote:and this is the same point, that why no one will say they are enlightened, the high lamas, anyone, if you ask them. cause they have nothing to prove and it wont make people believe so. it will just make them look stupid claiming to be enlightened. just like you in this thread.

I don't ask anyone to prove their enlightenment, because it cannot be proven. Greg thinks that enlightenment gives omniscience that enables one to know everything about everything. So I ask why enlightened beings do not give humanity cure for AIDS and similar suffering agents. Now you are telling me that they are not doing it because they would look stupid?! No, enlightenment does not give you a hard drive full of information about everything. Quite contrary.
KonchokZoepa wrote:look in example HHDL, he is humble person who claims to be an ordinary warm hearted being. nothing less nothing more.

And you are suggesting he is something more? Why?
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Re: Emptiness and omniscience

Postby LastLegend » Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:30 pm

KonchokZoepa,

You are not agreeing with him and call him full of crap. Maybe he's doing something right. What good if everyone is agreeing?
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Re: Emptiness and omniscience

Postby KonchokZoepa » Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:43 pm

last legend actually after having reading a bit more i kinda like oushi's contribution to this thread. some wise stuff in it.

sorry oushi from my comment, i did not really read the whole conversation and was jumping in in the middle of it and twisted my perception of whats happening. after tracking it down, i take my accusations back and apologize. sorry.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: Emptiness and omniscience

Postby oushi » Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:27 am

Thank you.
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Re: Emptiness and omniscience

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:32 am

oushi wrote:Modesty as aspersion...
You obviously do not know what "casting aspersions" means.
It seems that for you, saving millions from suffering caused by this horrible disease is a waste of precious time....
One of my teachers is a allopathic and homeopathic doctor. Another one is a reiki master. They have all completed at least one traditional three year retreat. They are all qualified lama. They have devoted their entire lives to relieving suffering. If they knew the cure for AIDS, I am sure they would have told the world about it by now. Anyway, who told you that meditation teachers have to know how to cure physical disease too? How many people did the Buddha cure of their physical ailments? You may not be aware of the fact (not being omniscient and everything) that the Buddha suffered and died of a physical ailment. So please stop casting aspersions on my teachers.
bollocks, but you have to defend you views, no matter how stupid they are.
They are not my views. If you have an issue with what I am saying then you can take it up with the "stupid" Karma Kagyu lineage masters.

PS Did your teacher(s) give you the cure for AIDS yet? No? Maybe they are stupid and do not know the cure? Maybe they are cruel and wish to see people suffer? Maybe they are not fully enlightened and omniscient? Or maybe you just don't have a teacher(s) and are making all this up as you go along?
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Emptiness and omniscience

Postby muni » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:04 am

oushi wrote:
muni wrote:The door is symbol as cut of inner-outer duality. Yes, no one will be released.

:namaste:

Isn't, bringing importance to those doors, that which creates the duality? Mind gymnastics, nothing more.


Yes, by conceptual mind the door of the mirage is a real door, a focussed solid phenomena. Form-emptiness-emptiness-form.
Like for example recieving pointing by open devotion for nature like it is, is non conceptual contemplation. This cannot actually be 'thaught'. It gives the choice liberation or lost. Bringing importance to word door is focussing about, lost, as thought doesn't want to surrender. It is expressed in the 4 reliances.

Conceptual mind gymnastics: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDwZfhdkA3M

I hear the word groundlesness. :namaste:
Last edited by muni on Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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