Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Discuss your personal experience with the Dharma here. How has it enriched your life? What challenges does it present?

Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby kirtu » Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:07 am

Over the years I have encountered many instances of lamas or teachers reading one's mind. This has happened in Tibetan Buddhism, Zen Buddhism and Theradavin Buddhism. There is a question of just how much can be read - is this actually more an imputation on my part? But in fact many Zen teachers and lamas have raised topics that were vitally important to me without me asking any questions or making any suggestions at all. The latest such incident occurred today when a lama (whom I have met several times over the past five years) sat down and just started saying something to a group I was sitting with that addressed a major problem of mine.

Clairvoyance at some level or just well-developed intuition? Functionally there is no real difference.

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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby Jesse » Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:31 am

Many people are clairvoyant in some way or another. Sometimes this sort of thing can happen with normal people. I imagine it depends on the extent of their ability, some may only sense very strong thoughts and emotions, while others can probably see everything, even subconscious thoughts you are hardly aware of. It's kind of embarrassing no? Though a teacher would likely never judge anyone..

Clairvoyance at some level or just well-developed intuition? Functionally there is no real difference.


They are the same, imo.
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby Dan74 » Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:50 am

Sometimes it is simply serendipity, by which I mean that there is not necessarily an effort on the teacher's part nor awareness of the clairvoyance. It just happens so!
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby zerwe » Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:02 am

I have had some similar experiences and have wondered what to make of it. I haven't yet mustered
up the courage to bring it up in conversation with my teacher and don't know that it really would be of any benefit. Probably,
it is just another manifestation of my ego-mind. Actually, I have tried to just let it be and not let it stir my mind too much. However, it does make
one a little worrisome and embarrassed when you recall some of the absolutely "Bat s**t" crazy stuff that runs
through certain levels of mind from time-to-time.
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby Indrajala » Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:11 am

Considering Rupert Sheldrake's research, telepathy is actually a common occurrence.

I imagine with advanced mind training one's intuition becomes sharper in respect to subtlety picking up on what others are thinking.
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby Nilasarasvati » Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:32 am

zerwe wrote:I have had some similar experiences and have wondered what to make of it. I haven't yet mustered
up the courage to bring it up in conversation with my teacher and don't know that it really would be of any benefit. Probably,
it is just another manifestation of my ego-mind. Actually, I have tried to just let it be and not let it stir my mind too much. However, it does make
one a little worrisome and embarrassed when you recall some of the absolutely "Bat s**t" crazy stuff that runs
through certain levels of mind from time-to-time.
Shaun :namaste:


I did bring it up once with my teacher. I don't necessarily recommend it because I sort of agree with Dan---sometimes I think it's the last thing on their minds. They're just displaying wisdom all the time, if they're really good...it's only special to us in those rare moments when we're open to it.

My example: Once I had been on the rogue river in Oregon and among the myriad outrageous and beautiful and traumatic experiences that happened on that whitewater trip, I found a vulture feather and took it as a sort of token. Padmasambhava's lotus hat has a vulture feather sprouting from the top of it that symbolizes the perfection of the highest view, and I had been thinking about that.

Anyway next time I was at the Gonpa, with around thirty other students, when the Lama came in the room he looked straight at me and said
"You're back!"
"Yes!"
"From the desert?"
"No, I went to Oregon."
"Portland?"
"No, I was on the Rogue River."
"Oh. Where is that?"
"Southwest Oregon. It feeds into the Pacific."
"Ah. Did you find a feather?"
:crazy:
"Uh. Yes. I did. A vulture feather"
(he said it like it was that the next commonplace question in a string of smalltalk?)
"A vulture feather!"
When I brought it up later he acted like he had no idea what I was talking about.
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:01 am

Since getting involved in Vajrayana i've eerily gotten exposed to pretty much everything I was interested in or felt pulled to, seemingly at the exact right time. Like wanting to learn a certain practice, or know more about a certain thing then it turns out that's being talked about or taught next.. or if I had a question it was answered right before I was going to ask it, pretty interesting for sure. It's all been conventionally explainable I guess, but remarkably consistent.

I wonder if with really good teachers there's a point of subtlety where it might be near impossible for us to distinguish whether it's just good teaching protocol, clairvoyance, just everyone's karma lining up at that moment, or what, or like you said, if those are even different things necessarily..
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby smcj » Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:39 am

There are texts that talk about which meditation you need to master in order to do this. I won't direct anybody's reading in this regard, but suffice it here to say that it is in the texts.

The Tibetan's lamas I've met that have an unusual habit of talking about the exact thing I'm thinking about all seem to follow a saying that was used in the Nixon administration; "Plausible deniability"--they never cop to it. "Who, me? I have no idea what you're talking about!" :spy:
Last edited by smcj on Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby Wu-Ji » Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:45 am

Sarah Kerrigan wasn't happy when she found out what Jim Raynor was thinking.
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby lobster » Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:48 pm

I hope science begins to develop a framework to further such serviceable phenomena.
However it is often dependent on variables of situational requirements and not calculated repeatability. In other words it arises quite naturally through awareness training and growing bodhicitta.

Bodhisattvas naturally as they fulfil the genuine requirements and duties, develop siddhis. Not as show but as service . . . :woohoo: Certain qualities can be induced prematurely but without maturity are just party tricks.

. . . and now back to normal service . . . :meditate:
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby michaelb » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:24 pm

Years ago, when I hadn't been practicing long, I visited a Lama. We sat drinking tea and having a chat. I thought "are you telepathic?" He just said, "you know, all these things, like seeing other people's thoughts, are nothing special. If you develop concentration you can do them." and left it there. We started talking about other stuff.
Since then I've realised he is aware of more about me than I am. Sometimes it's a little embarrassing, sometimes it's comforting to know that he's watching out for me.
It is true, though. We can all do this, and though it is not the main point of practice, it does show that the mind is a lot bigger than most people seem to acknowledge. I think extended periods of silence and solitary retreat are good ways of developing this.

ps. Just thought I'd add, once when we were talking, I mentioned a story related to me by a student of Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche, I think. The student said he was going on holiday to Thailand and CNR said, before he left, "watch out for any big waves." That was the same month as the Asian tsunami. I asked my lama about this and why, if lamas can see future events and disasters, they don't warn anyone. He just said that nobody would believe them.
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby Konchog1 » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:02 pm

I think sometimes its a case of seeing what you want to believe. But I think it's possible. I've experienced things described in this thread but I'm not sure what to think.
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby lobster » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:08 am

Konchog1 wrote:I'm not sure what to think.

:woohoo:
Excellent. Keep up the good work. I will try my best to emulate your inspired efforts . . . . :namaste:

:popcorn:
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby Ayu » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:37 am

kirtu wrote:Over the years I have encountered many instances of lamas or teachers reading one's mind. This has happened in Tibetan Buddhism, Zen Buddhism and Theradavin Buddhism. There is a question of just how much can be read - is this actually more an imputation on my part? But in fact many Zen teachers and lamas have raised topics that were vitally important to me without me asking any questions or making any suggestions at all. The latest such incident occurred today when a lama (whom I have met several times over the past five years) sat down and just started saying something to a group I was sitting with that addressed a major problem of mine.

Clairvoyance at some level or just well-developed intuition? Functionally there is no real difference.

Kirt

I don't know, how to call it - but it is a quality of Buddhahood to react on the peoples needs in the right way.
Once i came to a lecture with a big problem in my heart. I was full of pain.
My teacher (a Senior Gelug Geshe) seemed to talk to me about this problem not only in one or two sentences, like usual, but for hours. The hole lecture was one big reliefing help for my problem.
And he does this not only for one person at a time, but for several people in the ordiance at the same time on different topics...
Once he held a lecture for a group of very, very different people. There where beginners and very old practicioners as well. Must have been difficult for him to touch them all mentally equaly. So, when he talked about the ability of a Buddha to see exactly the needs of the people, he apologized for not having this ability himself.
But i think he has. Even if it is difficult sometimes.
Because, if our mothers, who have been kind to us
From beginningless time, are suffering,
What can we do with (just) our own happiness?
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby mandala » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:10 am

I have no doubt that there are accomplished meditation masters and Lamas that can (quietly) read you like a book.
And collectively, in a class situation, intuitively talk on certain topics that speak to many in a personal way.

Since then I've realised he is aware of more about me than I am. Sometimes it's a little embarrassing, sometimes it's comforting to know that he's watching out for me.
It is true, though. We can all do this, and though it is not the main point of practice, it does show that the mind is a lot bigger than most people seem to acknowledge.


Yea, i agree. There's something unsettling about being 'naked' but also heart-warming to know that there is someone who's only agenda with you is to benefit you.
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby lobster » Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:54 pm

There's something unsettling about being 'naked'


You are not naked, you are being clothed in metta . . . :consoling:
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby Adamantine » Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:26 pm

lobster wrote:
There's something unsettling about being 'naked'


You are not naked, you are being clothed in metta . . . :consoling:


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Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby mandala » Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:59 pm

lobster wrote:
There's something unsettling about being 'naked'


You are not naked, you are being clothed in metta . . . :consoling:


haha, very nice!

:twothumbsup:
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby smcj » Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:18 pm

There's something unsettling about being 'naked'

You are not naked, you are being clothed in metta . . . :consoling:

It's not so bad if you are just there for an interview, you can guard your thoughts for short periods of time. It's harder if you are there on premises 24/7.

Once I was at a small monastery and did not expect the local lama to be very accomplished. Well, after calling me on my bad non-verbalized attitudes he saw that I was getting nervous about the invasion of my privacy. So the next day, as I was cleaning up after lunch, he came up to me and said, "some things I don't care about" to put me more at ease. That helped, because he was a classic tough little stodgy Kagyu that wasn't into babying people. He can be quite intimidating.
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby michaelb » Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:35 pm

smcj wrote:It's not so bad if you are just there for an interview, you can guard your thoughts for short periods of time. It's harder if you are there on premises 24/7.

I don't think proximity matters. I've been teased about some mad thing that was going on in my mind over 4000 miles away.
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