Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Discuss your personal experience with the Dharma here. How has it enriched your life? What challenges does it present?

Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby Konchog1 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:53 pm

“There was once a yogi called Tsang-nyön-pa. Tsang is the name of a place; nyön means crazy. This yogi led an ascetic life and wandered around a lot. Before eating, he would always offer his food to his guru. One day he was in a forest and met a shepherd, who gave him some tsampa. He hadn’t eaten for a long time and was very hungry, so he started eating it immediately. But the moment he put the food into his mouth, he thought, “Oh, I forgot offer it.” So he took the tsampa out of his mouth and, with incredible devotion, offered it to his guru.

At that moment his guru was giving teachings many miles away. All of a sudden, the food that Tsang-nyön-pa offered appeared in his guru’s mouth and he had to stop speaking. He said, “Today my disciple Tsang-nyön-pa, who hadn’t eaten for a long time, got some tsampa and offered it to me with such great devotion and single-pointed concentration that it actually came into my mouth.”

-Gomchen Khampala
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby Nosta » Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:23 pm

It is said that Acarya Mun Buridata Thera could read minds easly.

That venerable master was a duthanga buddhist (kind of a wandering ascet) most of his life, really devoted to Dharma. Because of that he developed some interesting skills.
Read this passage about his biography:
SINCE HIS TIME AT SARIKA CAVE, Ãcariya Mun possessed a mastery of
psychic skills concerning all sorts of phenomena. Over the years, his
proficiency grew to such an extent that there seemed to be no limit
to his abilities. As the monks living with him were well aware of these
abilities, they took strict care to be mentally self-controlled at all times.
They couldn’t afford to let their minds wander carelessly because their
errant thoughts could become the subject of a Dhamma talk they might
receive at the evening meeting. They needed to be especially vigilant
during the meeting when Ãcariya Mun was actually speaking to them.
In those brief moments when he stopped speaking – perhaps to catch his
breath, perhaps to observe something – if he detected any stray thought
among the monks, he immediately made an issue of it. The tone of his
voice changed dramatically as he mimicked the unmindful thoughts of
one of those present. Although Ãcariya Mun did not mention anyone
by name, his tone immediately startled that individual who became
quite frightened to ever dare think like that again.


This is from a free ebook you can find easly on net, wrote by the disciple Acarya Maha Boowa.

If there are so many masters reading minds, why they are so "quiet" about that, not showing their abilities? In my opinion, because they would look like liars. Even worst, they would be giving more attention to something that is completly useless for the end of suffering.
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby Konchog1 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:30 pm

...I'm never thinking around my gurus again...
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby smcj » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:56 pm

If there are so many masters reading minds, why they are so "quiet" about that, not showing their abilities? In my opinion, because they would look like liars. Even worst, they would be giving more attention to something that is completly useless for the end of suffering.

It is considered gauche to put one's accomplishments on public display, prestige being one of the 8 worldly dharmas and all. Plus it would pollute people's motivations to practice. Given the discipline shown I wouldn't doubt that samaya could be involved.
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby lobster » Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:00 am

Konchog1 wrote:...I'm never thinking around my gurus again...


:rolling:
you are not alone

:popcorn:
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby Ayu » Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:53 am

smcj wrote:
If there are so many masters reading minds, why they are so "quiet" about that, not showing their abilities? In my opinion, because they would look like liars. Even worst, they would be giving more attention to something that is completly useless for the end of suffering.

It is considered gauche to put one's accomplishments on public display, prestige being one of the 8 worldly dharmas and all. Plus it would pollute people's motivations to practice. Given the discipline shown I wouldn't doubt that samaya could be involved.

If i consider my teacher, i think, it is not so important for him what people think about him. The important thing for him is that they understand the dharma and follow the dharma as good as they can.
Everything, that comes out of his speech, you can find within the scriptures.
And he is not interested in pointing out failures in public - he is only interested in encouriging the people. Without getting tired. :meditate:
Because, if our mothers, who have been kind to us
From beginningless time, are suffering,
What can we do with (just) our own happiness?
From 10th of 37 Bodhisattva Practices
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby smcj » Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:02 am

...it is not so important for him what people think about him. The important thing for him is that they understand the dharma and follow the dharma as good as they can.
Everything, that comes out of his speech, you can find within the scriptures.
And he is not interested in pointing out failures in public - he is only interested in encouriging the people. Without getting tired.

Sounds like you've found a good one.
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby Punya » Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:31 pm

smcj wrote:
If there are so many masters reading minds, why they are so "quiet" about that, not showing their abilities? In my opinion, because they would look like liars. Even worst, they would be giving more attention to something that is completly useless for the end of suffering.

It is considered gauche to put one's accomplishments on public display, prestige being one of the 8 worldly dharmas and all. Plus it would pollute people's motivations to practice. Given the discipline shown I wouldn't doubt that samaya could be involved.


This seems very strongly the approach in the Tibetan tradition but it's curious in a way. I'm reading Sutra of the Wise and Foolish at the moment and it's full of stories about Buddha's clairvoyance and how much that inspired people. But I guess nowadays the modern mind is so sceptical and there are many charlatans afoot. The more I read the stories of the abilities of the masters of the last few generations though, the more I assume the current generation have the same abilities.
Unless the inner forces of negative emotions are conquered
Strife with outer enemies will never end.
~Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby smcj » Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:12 am

The closest thing you'll see to a lama making a public display Is when the Karmapa does the Vajra Crown ceremony. Once the hat is located, etc., and he starts doing them again, make a point of going. And don't close your eyes. It's called 'liberation upon seeing'. But don't expect to become enlightened there & then. I think in this case 'liberation' refers to in the bardo.
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby Arjan Dirkse » Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:31 pm

I'm generally very skeptical about claims of the supernatural kind. It's fairly easy - and common - to use false claims like this to get people to follow or support you. But I'm open to it, seeing is believing I guess.

I've had one odd thing happen - or two, actually, but the other doesn't relate to anything Buddhist. I'd love to discuss it with a Vajrayana teacher some day, but until then I am probably going to have to stay skeptical about it. It could just be a crazy accident, but it still has significance for me because it pointed out something that was "enlightening", so to speak.
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby Ayu » Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:01 pm

Exeptional occurances must not be an evidence for the realisations of the teacher. In this crazy life many things can happen. It is possible without an extraordinary wisdom of the teacher...
To judge about him one has to look if he does himself the things he teaches...
Because, if our mothers, who have been kind to us
From beginningless time, are suffering,
What can we do with (just) our own happiness?
From 10th of 37 Bodhisattva Practices
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby oldbob » Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:20 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhi#Usa ... a_Buddhism

Perhaps the Siddhis are the spare change of spiritual accomplishment.

But reading your mind can also be a "skillful means" in the form of a spiritual Master whom you trust.

To answer the OP's question: chapter, verse, line, and word, as intuitive information or as full Technicolor playback.

So if you have a secret you want to keep, don't hang out with a spiritual Master.
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:49 pm

smcj wrote:But don't expect to become enlightened there & then. I think in this case 'liberation' refers to in the bardo.
Which bardo? Coz apparently you can be enlightened on the spot, in the Shinay bardo, the bardo of birth and life (ie this life). ;)
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby muni » Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:59 pm

kirtu wrote:Clairvoyance.

Kirt


I guess, since wisdom is not locked in thoughts or toilets, there is nothing blocking wisdom space.
I got a book by Tsangnyön Heruka; The Life of Milarepa. I broke in tears by reading the 'communication' between Marpa-Milarepa and Milarepa and His Disciples.

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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby MalaBeads » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:56 pm

Punya wrote: The more I read the stories of the abilities of the masters of the last few generations though, the more I assume the current generation have the same abilities.


Yes, the abilities are the same (after all, Buddha nature, has not changed in 2500 years) but the training is not the same. Somehow, the current generation (not to mention modern western culture) has got to figure out ways to keep the best of the training and discard the rest. Neither eastern ways nor western ways are the best.

My 2 cents.

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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby Luke » Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:12 pm

I sometimes had these feelings about some lamas I met, but then, to test them, I would suddenly think of the most gigantic and lewd pair of breasts I could possibly imagine. However, they didn't change their demeanor at all, so it didn't seem like they had "picked up on" my new mental image. lol
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby Konchog1 » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:19 pm

Luke wrote:I sometimes had these feelings about some lamas I met, but then, to test them, I would suddenly think of the most gigantic and lewd pair of breasts I could possibly imagine. However, they didn't change their demeanor at all, so it didn't seem like they had "picked up on" my new mental image. lol
:twothumbsup: To be fair, if you could read minds you'd read stuff like that all the time.

If I could read minds, I would probably just tune all the other minds out most of the time. It's like how I mute commercials on TV.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
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Re: Clairvoyant lama/teacher

Postby qwerty13 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:28 am

even though this thread is about clairvoyant lamas and this might go slightly off topic in the end but here`s few stories:
My mother (how does not even practice meditation, buddhism or any religion) has exhibited clairvoyant / mind reading abilities couple of times. This happened few years ago. I was on my summer vacation, i had just received my drivers license. I was at home, my mother (and father) was at work. I was about to go to local gym and stopped thinkin should i go there by car or just take a bus. I thought it over and decided to drive there. Later in the evening when mom came home, the very first thing she asks is "So did you go there [the gym] by car?" I was little bit amazed by the question and said "yes i did". To which she replies "oh, I knew it". She told me that when she was at work earlier that day, not thinking anything in particular, she suddenly "felt" that right now, at this moment, i am at home thinking wheter i should go to gym by car or bus. She also "sensed" that i`m going to drive there.

There has been also few cases when she sees dreams about future events. And these are not some metaphorical / symbolical dreams that she has interpreted as something that might happen. I mean that sees things as they happen and has very strong sense that it will come to reality. She once said she saw dream about her sisters husband in which he will get some problems in with his genitals and that area will operated. After few days she got a phone call from her sister who told that her husband has been transported to hospital because he had been suddenly began urinating blood and experiencing extreme pain in his genitals. And of course they did some operation to that area, can`t remember what exactly.

Another strange thing: When my mom was about to give birth to me she did not feel any pain at all. She was at the end of pregnancy, hanging out in home not thinking anything in particular when she just -according to her- heard a "voice" in heard head telling her that "You really should go to hospital right now". She described voice as very soothing and gentle, yet commanding. Again she did not feel ANY pains that are usually present when a child is about to take birth. She then thought should she go there by bus or take a taxi. Amazingly the voice told her to take a taxi. She gets to hospital, explains her situation and suddenly nurses point to her legs and says that " your child is about to take birth, your amniotic fluids came out!". My mom explained that the voice -what ever it was- told her to take a taxi to hospital because the bus would have been too slow- she would not have make it in time to hospital. She did not experience any pains when she was giving birth to me.

There are other unusual things that have happened to my mom.. just cant remember all of them right now
And no, i dont think my mother as some unusual human being -or "realized". And she dos not show these abilities all the time. They seem to arise spontaneously.If they arise


EDIT: Just checked out google. It appears that painless birth giving is rare - but not particulary "supernatural". However, hearing guiding voices before giving birth is not so common! :smile:
People love emotional confusion. Just look at the film posters in front of the cinema: nothing but emotional confusion on their faces. Buddha-dharma means not putting yourself at the mercy of emotional confusion. In the world, on the other hand, a big fuss is made over nothing.

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