Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Postby 5heaps » Fri May 31, 2013 12:29 am

its nicely organised, but theyre now facing lawsuits
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Postby M.G. » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:11 pm

Don't know about the situation in Asia, but I've noticed that in some "liberal" (whatever that means) circles I've encountered in the Northeastern United States, it's actually fashionable to bash Tibetan religious culture as a way of proving one's secularist bona fides.
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Postby flavio81 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:57 am

Indrajala wrote:In Taiwan there are some people quite opposed to Tibetan Buddhism. On one of the main train lines they have these announcements plastered on the side of a building (I took these today):

Image


To be honest, i don't feel too bad about these signs.

As pointed out by others, Vajaryana should for the most part be kept secret or in any case not publicized but taught only to people that are interested in it. It is just too easy to be misinterpreted, misjudged. Some tibetan writings mention this explicitely. Not only the Chinese government has some issues with it; even many Theravada practitioners show some contemption to Tibetan Buddhism, and i can't blame them when i put myself in their shoes.

I feel that the most valuable teachings are the ones that do not require any kind of publicity, because their value is extremely high when recognized by a suitable student. On the opposite of such spectrum are the spiritual traditions that require aggressive publicity (i.e. fanatical evangelical christianism). No matter how many "Tibetan buddhism is evil" ads are placed in the media, people with the capacity and the connection will value the teachings. Just as advanced math courses are widely regarded as "boring" and "not useful for daily life"...

As for the Chinese government versus HHDL, lately i've learnt not to believe anything posted by the official Chinese news. The damage done by Mao Tse Tung to its people (and to the world) is so vast and enduring that Stalin or Hitler seem tiny evils in comparison. I really feel sorry for the Chinese people. Thousands of years ago they were super-advanced spiritually and culturally.
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Postby Alfredo » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:54 am

Sorry to contribute so late, but...you really want to know about this group? Really really...? Okay, someone asked the same question on a forum for expats living in Taiwan. Someone else went and visited the group in question, which is called Zhengjue or True Enlightenment, whereupon a representative took note of the forum and began answering questions on it.

http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi ... 1&t=102003

The discussion devolved, I kid you not, into a Tibetan-style debate. A later thread focuses on the positive beliefs of the group, as opposed to their opposition to Tibetan Buddhism:

http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi ... 1&t=102463

Strangely, the group seems at once to support the Tibetan Jonangpa tradition, and to oppose all tantric practice. I despair of squaring this particular circle, but perhaps some desperate anthropologist will make the group an object of fieldwork.
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Postby PadmeSamadhi » Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:08 am

We lack a Mahasiddha to subjugate certain people who are doing harm
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Postby Loren » Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:05 am

i went to a Chinese food restaurant here and was talking to the owner and he asked me why i would ever want to be a monk in the Tibetan tradition. He said the lamas would force you to have %#%* sex. Now I see where he got that from.

EDIT My mother-in-law is Japanese so nothing new. Same ol human condition...
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Postby M.G. » Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:55 am

Loren wrote:i went to a Chinese food restaurant here and was talking to the owner and he asked me why i would ever want to be a monk in the Tibetan tradition. He said the lamas would force you to have %#%* sex. Now I see where he got that from.

EDIT My mother-in-law is Japanese so nothing new. Same ol human condition...



I have come across these kinds of stereotypes, unfortunately. When one of my former friends learned that I had taken a Tibetan Buddhist teacher, she attempted to inveigle me from that choice with similar accusations.

As my grandfather used to say "just about everybody in the world feels a need to hate somebody."
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Postby Simon E. » Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:13 am

Anti-Tibetan Buddhism signs are actually fairly common if you know how to read them...
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Postby dharmagoat » Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:44 pm

Image
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Postby yan kong » Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:23 pm

Loren wrote:i went to a Chinese food restaurant here and was talking to the owner and he asked me why i would ever want to be a monk in the Tibetan tradition. He said the lamas would force you to have %#%* sex. Now I see where he got that from.

EDIT My mother-in-law is Japanese so nothing new. Same ol human condition...


I've spent some time in Chinese Mahayana communities and among the last devotees there seemed to be a great deal of misunderstanding about the Vajrayana and the monastics practicing it.
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Postby plwk » Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:12 pm

I've spent some time in Chinese Mahayana communities and among the last devotees there seemed to be a great deal of misunderstanding about the Vajrayana and the monastics practicing it.
I can totally relate to this from personal experience, ranging from open disgust and subtle dismissive attitudes from some laity and monastics alike and reading from even eminent Masters like the late Ven Dr Yìn Shùn who did a short critique on it in his The Way to Buddhahood but having said all of that, Shingon-shu / Tángmì / True Word Sect is still well regarded despite the abundance of charlatans and self proclaimed Dai Ajaris...
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Postby yan kong » Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:50 am

plwk wrote:
I've spent some time in Chinese Mahayana communities and among the last devotees there seemed to be a great deal of misunderstanding about the Vajrayana and the monastics practicing it.
I can totally relate to this from personal experience, ranging from open disgust and subtle dismissive attitudes from some laity and monastics alike and reading from even eminent Masters like the late Ven Dr Yìn Shùn who did a short critique on it in his The Way to Buddhahood but having said all of that, Shingon-shu / Tángmì / True Word Sect is still well regarded despite the abundance of charlatans and self proclaimed Dai Ajaris...


I was, in this case, referring specifically to celebacy among monastics practicing the vajrayana. This in my experience is where the misunderstanding often lies.
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Postby WeiHan » Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:57 am

Indrajala wrote:In Taiwan there are some people quite opposed to Tibetan Buddhism. On one of the main train lines they have these announcements plastered on the side of a building (I took these today):

Image

Image

I suspect this stems from their concerns about consort practices. I was once at the National Palace Museum and some individuals were handing out bilingual booklets with graphic images of tantric deities coupling, condemning it as wrong.

They really went all out with these signs on the side of a building though. You can easily see it from the train and on the platform.


BTW, I know this cult. They are not a recognised Buddhist organisation in the mainstream in Taiwan. You may not have some information. Other than Tibetan Buddhism, they attacked everything else and propagated something that doesn't seem like authentic Buddhism at all. But of course, they are seem to have some rich patron and can launch vehement campaign, these have been around for quite many years already.
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Postby ShineeSeoul » Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:39 pm

Someone has said that consort practice doesn't exist in shingon buddhism or east asian esoteric buddhism

does it mean by consort practice is sex in this post?

if yes, then I could understand why oppostion has arrised
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Postby Zhen Li » Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:07 am

Consort practice can be visualised, or it might imply actual sex. Esoteric Buddhism didn't include such practices in China, since they developed later than when Esoteric practices were being transmitted to China.

While perceptions about these kinds of practices are part of why Buddhists in Taiwan may view Tibetan Buddhism as somewhat insincere, that's really half the reason. There are general perceptions that the discipline of the monks doesn't meet standards that folks from Chinese traditions would expect - of course, this may be simply an aesthetic concern.
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Postby Zhen Li » Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:09 am

plwk wrote:
I've spent some time in Chinese Mahayana communities and among the last devotees there seemed to be a great deal of misunderstanding about the Vajrayana and the monastics practicing it.
I can totally relate to this from personal experience, ranging from open disgust and subtle dismissive attitudes from some laity and monastics alike and reading from even eminent Masters like the late Ven Dr Yìn Shùn who did a short critique on it in his The Way to Buddhahood but having said all of that, Shingon-shu / Tángmì / True Word Sect is still well regarded despite the abundance of charlatans and self proclaimed Dai Ajaris...

plwk, could you please show me what Ven Dr Yìn Shùn wrote? I wasn't able to find it.
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Postby ShineeSeoul » Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:19 am

Zhen Li wrote:Consort practice can be visualised, or it might imply actual sex. Esoteric Buddhism didn't include such practices in China, since they developed later than when Esoteric practices were being transmitted to China.

While perceptions about these kinds of practices are part of why Buddhists in Taiwan may view Tibetan Buddhism as somewhat insincere, that's really half the reason. There are general perceptions that the discipline of the monks doesn't meet standards that folks from Chinese traditions would expect - of course, this may be simply an aesthetic concern.


if its actual sex...that is deviant for sure...I heared that the office of Dalai lama has denied this thing though in Taiwan

Tibetan buddhism is like a mystery...no body for sure could know whats going on
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Postby Zhen Li » Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:28 am

Tibetan Buddhism also refers to a lot of sects with different histories and practices, we can't generalise one way or the other. Individuals may differ from our expectations, so I think it's best to avoid judgement. Also, if we dismiss someone who may be a great Bodhisattva because of our expectations, the karma cannot be wholesome.
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Postby smcj » Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:32 am

ShineeSeoul wrote:if its actual sex...that is deviant for sure...I heared that the office of Dalai lama has denied this thing though in Taiwan

Tibetan buddhism is like a mystery...no body for sure could know whats going on

It's actual, but not sex. On another thread JKhedrup checked with the geshe he translates for and confirmed that in theory it is possible for a monk to do consort practice without breaking his vow of celibacy. However the preconditions as to the level of attainment and the depth of renunciation are so great that basically, from the Gelug perspective, it almost never legitimately happens, maybe 5-6 times a century in Old Tibet. Of course the Nyingmapas do not take vows of celibacy so their criteria are a bit looser.
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Re: Anti-Tibetan Buddhism Signs

Postby ShineeSeoul » Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:13 am

smcj wrote:
it is possible for a monk to do consort practice without breaking his vow of celibacy.


How is that possible? you mean by visualisation?

even visualising sex is deviant too...I don't understand what sex has to do with buddhist practice

any way, dalai lama office has denied this thing is practiced..I doubt at what extent his statement is true though
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