Can a person be a hungry ghost?

If you're new to the forum or new to Buddhism, this is the best place for your questions. Responses require moderator approval before they are visible.
Post Reply
SynapticKaos
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 1:15 am

Can a person be a hungry ghost?

Post by SynapticKaos »

I've seen where people talk about addiction can lead someone to be reborn as a hungry ghost. Can a person be one as well? The huge inner tempest I have and all the issues with my actions and thoughts lead me to wonder. Can someone be reborn in a state where suffering will just rule Supreme?
User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 21906
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Can a person be a hungry ghost?

Post by Grigoris »

SynapticKaos wrote:I've seen where people talk about addiction can lead someone to be reborn as a hungry ghost. Can a person be one as well? The huge inner tempest I have and all the issues with my actions and thoughts lead me to wonder. Can someone be reborn in a state where suffering will just rule Supreme?
No, a human is a human. They can carry tendencies and imprints from a previous existence as a Hungry Ghost and that may influence current actions, or they can be so embroiled in actions that lead to rebirth in the realm of hungry ghosts that they are already starting to display some of the characteristics.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
User avatar
Caoimhghín
Posts: 3419
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:35 pm
Location: Whitby, Ontario

Re: Can a person be a hungry ghost?

Post by Caoimhghín »

SynapticKaos wrote:I've seen where people talk about addiction can lead someone to be reborn as a hungry ghost. Can a person be one as well?
There is a certain monk, Ven Buddhadasa, who has a very idiosyncratic explanation of dependant origination and rebirth that is based on his readings of the Theravāda Nikāya literature, particularly the Saṃyuttanikāya.

He argues that rebirth is moment-to-moment, and things that are traditionally understood to occur over multiple births, actually occur at all times internally (ie within the mind itself). When things arise, when things fall, this particular monk interprets these as relating primarily to mental phenomena. When self-conceptions are born and die, mentally, internally, Ven Buddhadasa sees this in the same way that other Theravāda Buddhists see the rebirth-over-three-lifetimes model of pratītyasamutpāda enumerated in the Mahāṭṭhakathā (lit. "Great Commentary"). So when there is born a hungry ghost, or a demon, or a god of sense-pleasure-heaven, these are understood by Ven Buddhadasa to be mental states present in the here-and-now in this lifetime.

IMO he goes too far, because he claims that his idiosyncratic limited-to-one-life understanding of pratītyasamutpāda is significantly "more true" than traditional rebirth-based understandings (or at least, he has very radical sectarian followers, I doubt Ven Buddhadasa was so sectarian in actuality), but I see no reason to think that both systems don't work in tandem with each other. Ven Buddhadasa's dispensation of pratītyasamutpāda-teaching is like an exploration of "micro-rebirth" and the traditional is like an understanding of "macro-rebirth". I don't think the two understandings contradict each other despite the polemics that sectarians enjoy getting involved in.

Ven Buddhadasa was a Theravādin but he is famous for saying:
Those who have penetrated to the highest understanding will feel that the thing called 'religion' doesn't exist after all. There is no Buddhism; there is no Christianity; there is no Islam. How can they be the same or in conflict when they don't even exist?
(Ven Buddhadasa, No Religion)
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:

These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?

The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
crazy-man
Posts: 506
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:22 pm

Re: Can a person be a hungry ghost?

Post by crazy-man »

there are different forms of peta(preta, hungry ghost)
Peta
dead, departed, the departed spirit. The Buddhistic peta represents the Vedic pitaraḥ (manes, cp. pitṛyajña), as well as the Brāhmaṇic preta. The first are souls of the “fathers,” the second ghosts, leading usually a miserable existence as the result (kammaphala) or punishment of some former misdeed (usually avarice) They may be raised in this existence by means of the dakkhiṇā (sacrificial gift) to a higher category of mahiddhikā petā (alias yakkhas), or after their period of expiation shift into another form of existence (manussa, deva, tiracchāna). The punishment in the Nirayas is included in the peta existence. Modes of suffering are given SN.ii.255; cp K.S. ii, 170 p. On the whole subject see Stede, Die Gespenstergeschichten des Peta Vatthu, Leipzig 1914; in the Peta Vatthu the unhappy ghosts are represented, whereas the Vimāna Vatthu deals with the happy ones.
https://suttacentral.net/define/peta

for example, there is a manussapeta. a ghost in human form Ja.iii.72; Ja.v.68; Vv-a.23

The Book Of Hungry Ghosts
http://sdhammika.blogspot.de/2012/02/bo ... hosts.html
User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 21906
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Can a person be a hungry ghost?

Post by Grigoris »

crazy-man wrote:for example, there is a manussapeta. a ghost in human form Ja.iii.72; Ja.v.68; Vv-a.23
A ghost that looks like a human, not a human that is a ghost...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
muni
Posts: 5559
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Can a person be a hungry ghost?

Post by muni »

.... You know we’ve all gone through periods in our lives when we’ve done that. Haven’t we? Absolutely. We have used other people for our own satisfaction. Absolutely. And for many of us, we made careers out of it. Right? And maybe still, maybe still. We have seen how people can wrap their whole lives around graspiness and neediness; and every time they meet with somebody it’s like you can hear the suction. You can just hear it. You feel like the blood is coming out of your pores. And that’s the kind of person you instinctively stay away from because, literally, you can feel your energy being sucked into them. Haven’t you felt that kind of thing? You can feel the energy being sucked into them,. And it’s true. If you could see it with different eyes, your energy would be sucked into them. That’s true. That kind of cause, that kind of habitual tendency that the person might experience, or if it’s you, you might experience, would result in rebirth as a hungry ghost. Particularly, also, it is the kind of person who is against and has no compatibility with compassion and generosity. The person who is chronically, without hesitation, selfish to the bone. Now you may think, “Are there really people like that?” Oh ho ho, yes! I’ll tell you , this story briefly. In New York once, I went to give a teaching. I remember walking into the room and thinking “Oh, no,” because, you know, a lama does develop the ability to sort of intuit who we’re talking to. And I remember walking into the room and going, “No-o-o!” because I could see that it was going to be very, very difficult. And sure enough, here we were in New York and I was talking about the most benign… I wasn’t talking about hell realms. I would never be dumb enough to talk about hell realms in New York! You guys want to hear that you have to come to Poolesville! So anyway, I was talking about the most benign and charming—talk about white picket fence!—subject that you could possibly think of. Kindness. Talking about Bodhicitta. I was talking about how, in the most fundamental way, kindness makes one feel. Really, being kind to others makes one feel better. I was talking about how developing the habit of kindness brings this result, just kindness. I was talking about Bodhicitta being consistent with our own nature. I swear to you not one, but on different occasions, three women stood up and argued with me about the validity of kindness. One woman in particular said, “This is ridiculous. Kindness has no place in my life. I mean you have to get what you want! I don’t see the point of what you say. This is whoosh. Tell me something real!” That is literally what happened. I remember just feeling this compassion for them, for what can the result of that be? What do you think their next experience is going to be like? Do you think they’re going to fall into the lap of mother love? Do you think that kindness is going to be just heaped on them in their next life? I don’t think so. I don’t see how that’s going to happen. So these poor people are up against the wall and they don’t even realize it.And in her haughtiness she defended what was going to make her suffer horribly. So you see there is that kind of thing operating in the minds of sentient beings. There are some people that categorically refuse and reject the idea of kindness and benefitting others. In fact, that is not consistent with all of the world religions. We should take equal responsibility with ourselves as with other sentient beings. There are even types of teaching that the Buddha has taught that are meant for that kind of person who cannot appreciate compassion, who are not even set up to hear the word compassion... Jetsunma Ahkon Norbu Lhamo


:group:
narhwal90
Global Moderator
Posts: 3504
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:10 am
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Can a person be a hungry ghost?

Post by narhwal90 »

I am tempted to view those in the grip of addiction as hungry ghosts, trying to get the fix to feel OK; make "it" right and fill that hole, but nothing is ever enough and the hole only gets bigger & in the end the only thing left is the hole.
AlexanderS
Posts: 416
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:58 am

Re: Can a person be a hungry ghost?

Post by AlexanderS »

Who cares? The sufferings of the human realm are as real as any of the lower realms when the conditions come together. Sure the suffering of severe addiction is as bad as some hungry ghosts. Just like some humans are stupid as animals without literally being animals, and like some people born into high stature with good looks and wealth are like asuras always being in competion about prestige.
User avatar
Ambrosius80
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 6:20 pm

Re: Can a person be a hungry ghost?

Post by Ambrosius80 »

In a way, yes.

The six realms of Samsara should be seen as both metaphors for different states of mind, as well as actual paraller dimensions where one transmigrates after physical death in my opinion.

To say one is like a hungry ghost is to describe someone who craves for something, be it money, fame, sex etc., but can never really reach it. Instead, such person will always be "hungry" for his particular obsession, never seemingly getting enough.

Naturally, if one were to live their entire life like this or commit otherwise bad karma, one could be reborn in the literal preta realm after death as well.
"What we have now is the best. He who can never be satisfied is a poor man, no matter how much he owns.

What you have results from karmic causes that you created, and what you'll gain hinges on karmic causes that you're creating."
-Master Sheng Yen
Soma999
Posts: 702
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Can a person be a hungry ghost?

Post by Soma999 »

Someone who is plagued with hatred creates hell out of his own life. He is burned by his anger and cold by it's absence of pure emotions.

Someone plagued with desire (clinging, posesivism) is like a hungry gost. He want "too much" and what he wants disapear. When he finds peace, what he wants come.
And if he is too much centered on his desire, he do not even have pleasurable experience whatever he can experience. The more he experience, the more he is thirsty. And many things thats seems enjoyable from a distance can become poison if there is no love and compassion in the mind.

Someone who is plagued by ignorance will be exploited and used like animals.

Someone who is competitive and jealous will always be in fight and unhappy like an asuras.

Someone who is full of pride do nothing but looks his belly, use good circonstances without even doing something for others, without even doing something to grow. And a full moon can do only one things : decrease. He would escape this fate if he was not a full moon but a nearly full moon : always growing, and growing by sharing.

So, we have the five poisons that creates our life a pure mess.

And we have the human. And the human have something very precious : a choice. They have the possibility to create, to act. The other planes are more consequences of actions.

When the five poisons are transformed, we creates the pure beautiful mandala of the 5 buddha into the world. Wisdom is gained.

How do wisdom grow ? With love. The more we are self-centered, the more energy takes dark shades. The more we grow and have compassion, the more energy shines with wisdom.

Wisdom is the light produced by the fire of our love, our compassion.
muni
Posts: 5559
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Can a person be a hungry ghost?

Post by muni »

How do wisdom grow ? With love. The more we are self-centered, the more energy takes dark shades. The more we grow and have compassion, the more energy shines with wisdom.
Emaho! :buddha1:
Jeff H
Posts: 1020
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:56 pm
Location: Vermont, USA

Re: Can a person be a hungry ghost?

Post by Jeff H »

For what it’s worth, here’s how I put the teachings together in my own mind.

Such a question can only arise in the human realm. What makes a precious human life precious is the opportunity to see suffering and understand how it occurs, followed by the freedom to see past its prison and take action.

Humans experience suffering but, for the fortunate, not to a paralyzing, debilitating degree. We also experience peace and happiness, but not to a blissful degree. This provides a useful perspective and an impetus for those able to capitalize on the insight. The five non-human realms are merely reflected within the human realm and, like a model, can help one grasp and analyze a much larger problem.

Prior mental intentions generate the present world we experience. Current reactions to that world generate our future worlds. The lesson I take from the teachings of hell realms and enlightenment, both, is that the mind has no limits.

I believe that to make sense of Buddhism we must take rebirth literally. We can derive a satisfactory moralism without positing rebirth, but that isn’t the point of Buddhism. Buddhism says that all experience is an infinite succession of distinct but causally related conscious moments. Within the human realm we can gain a microcosmic glimpse of the terrifying range of possible intentions undisciplined minds could generate. We can imagine what kind of life-experiences they could create in their timeless marches.

However, Buddhism tells us that the opposite is equally true. By opening our eyes and applying appropriate discretion and discipline, the same minds are equally capable of completely eliminating the distortions that generate all suffering in all the realms.
Where now is my mind engaged? - Shantideva
Post Reply

Return to “Discovering Mahayana Buddhism”