Obsessive Thoughts

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Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Soar » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:49 am

Jesse wrote:unfortunately, exercise only worsens the problem. It seems that exciting the body also excites the mind. Exercising when i feeling good, does help prevent episodes, though. Also unfortunately there aren't any techniques that actually work for ocd, with the exception of meditation which results in thoughts becoming very 'transparent', if that makes sense. Normally thoughts are very solid and what-not, if I can meditate and reach a state where the thoughts more or less pass though and never touch my mind, that works.. but that's a very hard thing to do. (for me.)

I see a psychiatrist for help with medications, but honestly there isn't much they can do for OCD except manage the symptoms.. it's sort of frustration and depressing. I'm not sure if conversation therapy would be helpful, but im doubtful of it. To be honest, lately I've been pretty frustrated and angry with my condition, im sick of dealing with it.


Yantra yoga and bimala or agar-35 help with such rlung disorders.


I'm not very fit, so I think yoga's out of the question haha.. as for the medicines.. do they actually help?
I have in the past been prescribed both Zoloft and Xanax for these sorts of problems, but I found the side effects so bad I dropped them.


I agree about the side effects, I've had to yo-yo the dosage of my SSRI to get the best benefit / less side effects.. it's hard.


I think possibly you are avoiding the one thing that will help or may be an essential part of resolving this.

And that is some physical/energy based practise, like yoga, qigong or tai chi. Becasue, as you know, if you fight your mind with your mind you get in a terrible mess. And meditation is great when it works, but it is not so easy or so often that it works. So you need body and energy practise's that you can do as needed. They dont have dramatic effects, but the long term gradual effect can completely cure these things, or at least you become as OCD as everyone else. I think for many reasons they work, but mainly it reorders the energy of your body, and this changes how thoughts manifest. And they train your mind to be naturally present to a fuller range of experience, ie. if you are more aware of your sensual experience and body you are happy being present to this and it doesnt matter so much what kind of thoughts you have, also this gives you a continuous reality check so if you are present to what you are acutally seeing and hearing and feeling, then your mind doesn't make up stories about it etc.

You dont have to be fit to do these, you do these things to get fit in a gentle, intelligent way. There are many different types of yoga and teachers though, so find something gentle if you go that way, and find teachers that can adapt their teaching to each individual student. For qigong and tai chi see here www.energyarts.com for an instructor near you.

So I would do all 3 together - See a tibetan/ayuvedic/chinese doctor and herbs/acupuncture, meditation, and yoga/qigong/tai chi. Herbs and acupuncture work really well if they are used as a support for making lifetyle changes like starting a qigong practise or changing your diet. They really are tried and tested ways to cure things like this.
“If you propose to speak always ask yourself, is it true, is it necessary, is it kind?”
― Siddhārtha Gautama

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Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Jesse » Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:08 pm

I purchased this: Agar-35 From http://www.himalayanremedies.com/agar-35/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hope someone has good experience with them. Their website states:

Doctors of Tibetan Medicine

Laila Reiss and Joey Mella are both Graduates of Shang Shung Institute School of Tibetan Medicine USA, founded by Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche. They completed a traditional 4-year training program in Massachusetts, USA, as well as an internship in Tibet/China at Tso Ngon University of Tibetan Medicine and the Tibetan Medical Hospital of Qinghai, Amdo.


Can anyone confirm this?

I figured i'd at least give it a try. As for the energy stuff, I've never been big into it.. Just never been able to 'feel' any energy in my body.. Though I'll admit I've tried it a few times. Probably not for me.

I totally agree on the diet, exercise and what-not though. Meditation does help, it's just that for it to help requires reaching pretty deep levels of shamatha. These days I meditate sporadically at best, and for an hour at most, so it's not much help. Perhaps I should invest in picking up my meditation regimen though.. I used to do 3 hours a day. 1 hour sitting in the morning, 1 hour of walking meditation at lunch, then another hour of sitting in the evening. Not sure I could do it if I wanted to, I'm so restless these days!

Thanks again for the advice, hope it serves to help others also.
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Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Soar » Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:03 pm

Well, you dont start of feeling your energy. It takes a lot time to really feel your qi, but it is not necessary, you start with just becoming more aware of your body, and you can know you are grounding your energy not by directly feeling it but becasue you start to feel more relaxed and comfortably energised after donig the exercises.

Qigong and yoga are simply very intelligent forms of exercise. You can do both very well without feeling energy at all, you work with precise body alignments and controlled movements and this is enough to get the majority of health benefits. For example, you learn to recognise that you have lots of tension in your neck and shoulders and then you do the exercies to retrain your body to relax instead of being tense and this then improves your everyday posture so your energy flows better. Lots of things like this add up and eventually your energy becomes more coordinated and doesn't cause or fuel your OCD.
“If you propose to speak always ask yourself, is it true, is it necessary, is it kind?”
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Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Jesse » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:40 am

Soar wrote:Well, you dont start of feeling your energy. It takes a lot time to really feel your qi, but it is not necessary, you start with just becoming more aware of your body, and you can know you are grounding your energy not by directly feeling it but becasue you start to feel more relaxed and comfortably energised after donig the exercises.

Qigong and yoga are simply very intelligent forms of exercise. You can do both very well without feeling energy at all, you work with precise body alignments and controlled movements and this is enough to get the majority of health benefits. For example, you learn to recognise that you have lots of tension in your neck and shoulders and then you do the exercies to retrain your body to relax instead of being tense and this then improves your everyday posture so your energy flows better. Lots of things like this add up and eventually your energy becomes more coordinated and doesn't cause or fuel your OCD.


Well it makes sense the way you explain it here. I am firmilar with body relaxing techniques. When they REALLY work well, it completely changes your mood, emotional state and everything. Difference is night and day.. That un-relaxed stiff state also seems to be when my OCD is worst, so you may have a point. Like after a good meditation session, when your entire body/mind is relaxed, your muscles, even your thoughts are relaxed. I wish I had a button to just turn that state on. :P
"We know nothing at all. All our knowledge is but the knowledge of schoolchildren. The real nature of things we shall never know." - Albert Einstein

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Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Knotty Veneer » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:03 am

Jesse wrote:Well it makes sense the way you explain it here. I am firmilar with body relaxing techniques. When they REALLY work well, it completely changes your mood, emotional state and everything. Difference is night and day.. That un-relaxed stiff state also seems to be when my OCD is worst, so you may have a point. Like after a good meditation session, when your entire body/mind is relaxed, your muscles, even your thoughts are relaxed. I wish I had a button to just turn that state on. :P


If meditation seems to have a beneficial effect perhaps you should also check out form of the mindfulness-based therapies. I am thinking particularly of Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) or mindfulness-based Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). These both take a mindful approach to dealing with destructive thought patterns. Both systems have a lot of medical literature to back them up now. ACT, apparently, has been very successful in helping people deal with anxiety disorders and with depression. It might also be useful with OCD. A good place to start with ACT, in my opinion, could be Russ Harris' book "The Happiness Trap".
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Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Virgo » Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:35 pm

Jesse wrote:I purchased this: Agar-35 From http://www.himalayanremedies.com/agar-35/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


How much of it do you take?

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Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Jesse » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:12 pm

I haven't received it yet.
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Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Virgo » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:10 am

Jesse wrote:I haven't received it yet.

Just regulate it based on if you are accumulating too much heat or not.

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Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Nemo » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:45 am

A healthy meditator stops feeding an intrusive thought with attention and it runs out of steam. I would think there is a physical component and it is not caused by neurotransmitter imbalance. So many ailments of neorons and nerves can now be traced to inflammation it will likely replace the serontogenic model. In the meantime watch your diet for foods that promote inflammatory reactions and seem to worsen your condition. Start with an elimination diet and a journal. Keep up with the research. Immunology and molecular biology are exploding right now. Doing things like taking 18,000 patients with an ailment and comparing them to a few hundred thousand healthy individuals and comparing roughly 7.2 million mapped genes. Needles in haystacks are being found monthly now. Causation of mental disorders may be close.

Do you have any other health problems?
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Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Jesse » Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:30 am

Virgo wrote:
Jesse wrote:I haven't received it yet.

Just regulate it based on if you are accumulating too much heat or not.

Kevin


Alright, Will let you know much it helps.

If meditation seems to have a beneficial effect perhaps you should also check out form of the mindfulness-based therapies. I am thinking particularly of Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) or mindfulness-based Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). These both take a mindful approach to dealing with destructive thought patterns. Both systems have a lot of medical literature to back them up now. ACT, apparently, has been very successful in helping people deal with anxiety disorders and with depression. It might also be useful with OCD. A good place to start with ACT, in my opinion, could be Russ Harris' book "The Happiness Trap".


Well I have been doing the whole mindfulness thing for a few years at this point, since I started out on TNH Books. I may look into it, I've read all about the whole mindfulness / CBT Combination.. seem's like I already use some of the same strategies.

A healthy meditator stops feeding an intrusive thought with attention and it runs out of steam. I would think there is a physical component and it is not caused by neurotransmitter imbalance. So many ailments of neorons and nerves can now be traced to inflammation it will likely replace the serontogenic model. In the meantime watch your diet for foods that promote inflammatory reactions and seem to worsen your condition. Start with an elimination diet and a journal. Keep up with the research. Immunology and molecular biology are exploding right now. Doing things like taking 18,000 patients with an ailment and comparing them to a few hundred thousand healthy individuals and comparing roughly 7.2 million mapped genes. Needles in haystacks are being found monthly now. Causation of mental disorders may be close.

Do you have any other health problems?


Yeah that's the problem, when it's possible to stop there's no problem. With OCD sometimes it won't stop no matter what you do, I think I've said it previously.. It's like a build-up of mental energy that just spawns off thoughts non-stop. The journal is a good idea, I have been considering trying it. I've thought for a long time I may have some type of seizure disorder, but there's no way to know without expensive medical scans, etc. I have definitely suffered a couple seizures that were probably medication induced. There's alot of features to my issue that make me believe it could be a seizure related problem, but that's another story. :namaste:
"We know nothing at all. All our knowledge is but the knowledge of schoolchildren. The real nature of things we shall never know." - Albert Einstein

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Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Knotty Veneer » Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:29 am

Jesse wrote:
Well I have been doing the whole mindfulness thing for a few years at this point, since I started out on TNH Books. I may look into it, I've read all about the whole mindfulness / CBT Combination.. seem's like I already use some of the same strategies.


Well to get the most out of these approaches, especially if your OCD is severe enough, you probably need to do more than read a few TNH books. You might consider seeing a mindfulness -based therapist.
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Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby LastLegend » Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:56 am

Jesse, your Chi does not follow well :) There is blockage. My opinion only don't beat too hard. When I master my Chi flow, I will teach you. :)
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Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby omnifriend » Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:15 am

I have OCD, it will take weeks or a few months to cure you, I have been using this technique for 17 days and today I have started seeing actual relief. The book Brain Lock was written by a Buddhist, and he uses 4 techniques for overcoming ocd thoughts and rituals.
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Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Ayu » Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:31 am

omnifriend wrote:... The book Brain Lock was written by a Buddhist, and he uses 4 techniques for overcoming ocd thoughts and rituals.

For further information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_M. ... Brain_lock
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Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby uan » Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:15 pm

My son has OCD.

I recently listened to a great program on NPR (American public radio) on "Dark Thoughts". Specifically about Harm OCD, but it seems the treatment might have broader application:

http://www.npr.org/2015/01/09/375928124/dark-thoughts

I liked that part of the treatment seemed to be (I'm still learning more about it) to not view the thoughts as real, giving them less power - which fits in well with some dharma practice.
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Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Monlam Tharchin » Fri Feb 06, 2015 7:30 pm

I wonder too if some kind of relentless vocal mantra practice could help, saying manis or nembutsu or the Medicine Buddha mantra just constantly out loud as often as you can.
That way, not only do you benefit from opening the floodgates of blessings from specific buddhas and bodhisattvas, but from a practical point of view, it provides a concrete sensory baseline that is wholesome and conducive to liberation.
Mantra recitation also has the benefit that it can be quiet and in the background, like soil for the seed of your activities, or you can turn up the volume and concentration and make every syllable your life's work.
It's done wonders in helping me feel less distracted and forgetful. I hope it can have similar benefits for those suffering from serious afflictions as well.
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Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Saoshun » Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:32 pm

Jesse wrote:So I have OCD, specifically what's called 'pure ocd', obsessions without compulsions. I take medications for it, but still suffer a great deal from the anxiety and from the obsessive thoughts. I am curious what some alternative methods of dealing with it are?

I take propranolol, which is a beta blocker (It blocks adrenaline and helps with the physical symptoms of anxiety.), as well as fluvoxamine (ssri for ocd).

From what I have observed in meditation, it just feels like an enormous amount of energy in the mind, nervous energy maybe, and controlling it is just out of the question, I try to stay mindful of it and not get caught up in it, but it's draining, let me tell you..

Does anyone else suffering from OCD? What do you do to alleviate your symptoms? Alternative medication suggestions are welcomed also.

Thanks. :)


A Method in Sustaining the Nature of Awareness
Homage to the glorious Primordial Protector.
When sustaining the nature of awareness, the three stages of recognizing, training and attaining stability will
gradually occur.
First of all, scrutinize the naked and natural face of awareness by means of your master's oral instructions
until you see it free from assumptions.
Having resolved it with certainty, it is essential that you simply sustain the nature of just that.
It is not enough just to recognize it, you must perfect the training in the following way:
You may already have recognized the face of awareness, but unless you rest in just that, conceptual thinking
will interrupt it and it will be difficult for awareness to appear nakedly.
So, at that point it is essential to rest without accepting or rejecting your thoughts and to continue by
repeatedly resting in the state of un-fabricated awareness.
When you have practiced this again and again the force of your thought waves weakens while the face of your
awareness grows sharper and it becomes easier to sustain.
That is the time when you should abide in the meditation state as much as you can and be mindful of
remembering the face of awareness during post-meditation. As you grow used to this the strength of your
awareness is trained further.
At first, when a thought occurs you need not apply a remedy to stop it. By leaving it to itself it is, at some point,
naturally freed - just as the knot on a snake becomes untied by itself.
When you become more adept, the occurrence of a thought will cause slight turmoil but immediately vanish in
itself - just like a drawing on the surface of water.
When you train in just that, you gain experience that transcends benefit and harm, at which point thought
occurrences cause no problem whatsoever. Thus, you will be free from hope or fear about whether or not
thoughts do occur - just like a thief entering an uninhabited house. By practicing further you perfect the training so that, finally, your conceptual thinking and the all-ground along
with its moving force dissolve into un-fabricated Dharmakaya.
That is the attainment of the natural abode of awareness.
Just as you cannot find any ordinary stones on an island of gold even if you search for them all that appears
and exists will be experienced as the realm of Dharmakaya.
Attaining stability is when everything has become all-encompassing purity.
In the same way, just as conceptual thinking gradually falls under the power of awareness during the daytime,
at night you do not need to apply some other instruction, but should simply understand how the recognition of
dreams and the luminosities of the shallow and deep sleep correspond.
Until you attain stability, by all means continue with undistracted diligence like the steady flow of a river.
This was taught by Mipham. May virtuous goodness increase!



Secondly, TCM can easily cure your disease in days. I can contact you with my friend who can cheaply recover your from your condition permanently.
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Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby rachmiel » Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:17 am

I have OCD. Mine is the classic obsessive thoughts and compulsive actions variety.

For the most part, I treat it like a somatic quirk that I have no real control over like hay fever or tinnitus.

In doing this, I've developed a "clinical distance" to my symptoms. When they happen, they happen ... no big whoop.

I do think it's helpful to know, intellectually, that thinking something doesn't make it real.
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Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Elabelnaturel » Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:41 am

Jesse wrote:So I have OCD, specifically what's called 'pure ocd', obsessions without compulsions. I take medications for it, but still suffer a great deal from the anxiety and from the obsessive thoughts. I am curious what some alternative methods of dealing with it are?

I take propranolol, which is a beta blocker (It blocks adrenaline and helps with the physical symptoms of anxiety.), as well as fluvoxamine (ssri for ocd).

From what I have observed in meditation, it just feels like an enormous amount of energy in the mind, nervous energy maybe, and controlling it is just out of the question, I try to stay mindful of it and not get caught up in it, but it's draining, let me tell you..

Does anyone else suffering from OCD? What do you do to alleviate your symptoms? Alternative medication suggestions are welcomed also.

Thanks. :)


That's a nerve addiction coming out of many reasons and I would say that's where your solution would lie to gain some relief from there gradually.
I had a great deal of nervous compulsion and from what you are saying it is centered in thinking, the mental and emotion. They are linked. From my experience, the main trouble is the nervous system. I would bet this is coming from something outside you that has somehow some influence. All my nerve trouble was coming from an outsider influence and the main one was creating some kind of addictive pattern on me.
My solution to this pattern that affected then my mind and my thinking as you are saying is put an end to this addictive pattern out of an influence I couldn't understand. I had some intelligence to understand that this is not normal and natural so there is a reason outside it that affect my normal functioning of my nervous system. Compulsion is a nerve related.

So if I were you, first all I would understand clearly that this is not my fate to suffer this all my life and you know it. Then I know that it is some kind of influence on me that create an addictive pattern or craving like Buddha would say. It's really trying to get and understand the origin of this influence on you and then try to cut the source of this influence of the creating addictive pattern that create more trouble in your thinking and your nervous system again.

It's a matter of intelligence and understanding trouble like OCD, Schizophrenia and bipolar and more of this kind because for me, this kind of trouble are really subtle and deep in their affect. I am giving you the path for gaining relief from at least some of your suffering, the path is a conscious intelligent understanding of subtle influence outside on your system, that's the origin of this kind of suffering.

Now I would love to be more precise, for me, compulsion and nervous trouble related that affect emotion producing anxiety and increasing thinking is a lack of conscious observation around you. Because let me tell you, the slightest opportunity of unawareness is dangerous and you noticed it, that's why you try to be mindful so you got the reason somehow of the danger of being mindless. Maybe not as clearly expressed than right now. Being mindful is not just observing with your mind, try rather to use wisely your determination, your willingness and your energy, that's rather that I would say it is to be mindful. Then of course you know how to use your intelligence and your insight to keep going with your mindfulness. And help is damn required so you are doing the good thing in asking here and got some fuel.

Good luck
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