Obsessive Thoughts

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Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Virgo » Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:27 am

I am recommending this.

http://www.bhaisajya.guru/

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Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Soar » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:49 am

Jesse wrote:unfortunately, exercise only worsens the problem. It seems that exciting the body also excites the mind. Exercising when i feeling good, does help prevent episodes, though. Also unfortunately there aren't any techniques that actually work for ocd, with the exception of meditation which results in thoughts becoming very 'transparent', if that makes sense. Normally thoughts are very solid and what-not, if I can meditate and reach a state where the thoughts more or less pass though and never touch my mind, that works.. but that's a very hard thing to do. (for me.)

I see a psychiatrist for help with medications, but honestly there isn't much they can do for OCD except manage the symptoms.. it's sort of frustration and depressing. I'm not sure if conversation therapy would be helpful, but im doubtful of it. To be honest, lately I've been pretty frustrated and angry with my condition, im sick of dealing with it.


Yantra yoga and bimala or agar-35 help with such rlung disorders.


I'm not very fit, so I think yoga's out of the question haha.. as for the medicines.. do they actually help?
I have in the past been prescribed both Zoloft and Xanax for these sorts of problems, but I found the side effects so bad I dropped them.


I agree about the side effects, I've had to yo-yo the dosage of my SSRI to get the best benefit / less side effects.. it's hard.


I think possibly you are avoiding the one thing that will help or may be an essential part of resolving this.

And that is some physical/energy based practise, like yoga, qigong or tai chi. Becasue, as you know, if you fight your mind with your mind you get in a terrible mess. And meditation is great when it works, but it is not so easy or so often that it works. So you need body and energy practise's that you can do as needed. They dont have dramatic effects, but the long term gradual effect can completely cure these things, or at least you become as OCD as everyone else. I think for many reasons they work, but mainly it reorders the energy of your body, and this changes how thoughts manifest. And they train your mind to be naturally present to a fuller range of experience, ie. if you are more aware of your sensual experience and body you are happy being present to this and it doesnt matter so much what kind of thoughts you have, also this gives you a continuous reality check so if you are present to what you are acutally seeing and hearing and feeling, then your mind doesn't make up stories about it etc.

You dont have to be fit to do these, you do these things to get fit in a gentle, intelligent way. There are many different types of yoga and teachers though, so find something gentle if you go that way, and find teachers that can adapt their teaching to each individual student. For qigong and tai chi see here www.energyarts.com for an instructor near you.

So I would do all 3 together - See a tibetan/ayuvedic/chinese doctor and herbs/acupuncture, meditation, and yoga/qigong/tai chi. Herbs and acupuncture work really well if they are used as a support for making lifetyle changes like starting a qigong practise or changing your diet. They really are tried and tested ways to cure things like this.
“If you propose to speak always ask yourself, is it true, is it necessary, is it kind?”
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Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Jesse » Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:08 pm

I purchased this: Agar-35 From http://www.himalayanremedies.com/agar-35/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hope someone has good experience with them. Their website states:

Doctors of Tibetan Medicine

Laila Reiss and Joey Mella are both Graduates of Shang Shung Institute School of Tibetan Medicine USA, founded by Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche. They completed a traditional 4-year training program in Massachusetts, USA, as well as an internship in Tibet/China at Tso Ngon University of Tibetan Medicine and the Tibetan Medical Hospital of Qinghai, Amdo.


Can anyone confirm this?

I figured i'd at least give it a try. As for the energy stuff, I've never been big into it.. Just never been able to 'feel' any energy in my body.. Though I'll admit I've tried it a few times. Probably not for me.

I totally agree on the diet, exercise and what-not though. Meditation does help, it's just that for it to help requires reaching pretty deep levels of shamatha. These days I meditate sporadically at best, and for an hour at most, so it's not much help. Perhaps I should invest in picking up my meditation regimen though.. I used to do 3 hours a day. 1 hour sitting in the morning, 1 hour of walking meditation at lunch, then another hour of sitting in the evening. Not sure I could do it if I wanted to, I'm so restless these days!

Thanks again for the advice, hope it serves to help others also.
"We know nothing at all. All our knowledge is but the knowledge of schoolchildren. The real nature of things we shall never know." - Albert Einstein
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Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Soar » Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:03 pm

Well, you dont start of feeling your energy. It takes a lot time to really feel your qi, but it is not necessary, you start with just becoming more aware of your body, and you can know you are grounding your energy not by directly feeling it but becasue you start to feel more relaxed and comfortably energised after donig the exercises.

Qigong and yoga are simply very intelligent forms of exercise. You can do both very well without feeling energy at all, you work with precise body alignments and controlled movements and this is enough to get the majority of health benefits. For example, you learn to recognise that you have lots of tension in your neck and shoulders and then you do the exercies to retrain your body to relax instead of being tense and this then improves your everyday posture so your energy flows better. Lots of things like this add up and eventually your energy becomes more coordinated and doesn't cause or fuel your OCD.
“If you propose to speak always ask yourself, is it true, is it necessary, is it kind?”
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Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Jesse » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:40 am

Soar wrote:Well, you dont start of feeling your energy. It takes a lot time to really feel your qi, but it is not necessary, you start with just becoming more aware of your body, and you can know you are grounding your energy not by directly feeling it but becasue you start to feel more relaxed and comfortably energised after donig the exercises.

Qigong and yoga are simply very intelligent forms of exercise. You can do both very well without feeling energy at all, you work with precise body alignments and controlled movements and this is enough to get the majority of health benefits. For example, you learn to recognise that you have lots of tension in your neck and shoulders and then you do the exercies to retrain your body to relax instead of being tense and this then improves your everyday posture so your energy flows better. Lots of things like this add up and eventually your energy becomes more coordinated and doesn't cause or fuel your OCD.


Well it makes sense the way you explain it here. I am firmilar with body relaxing techniques. When they REALLY work well, it completely changes your mood, emotional state and everything. Difference is night and day.. That un-relaxed stiff state also seems to be when my OCD is worst, so you may have a point. Like after a good meditation session, when your entire body/mind is relaxed, your muscles, even your thoughts are relaxed. I wish I had a button to just turn that state on. :P
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Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Knotty Veneer » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:03 am

Jesse wrote:Well it makes sense the way you explain it here. I am firmilar with body relaxing techniques. When they REALLY work well, it completely changes your mood, emotional state and everything. Difference is night and day.. That un-relaxed stiff state also seems to be when my OCD is worst, so you may have a point. Like after a good meditation session, when your entire body/mind is relaxed, your muscles, even your thoughts are relaxed. I wish I had a button to just turn that state on. :P


If meditation seems to have a beneficial effect perhaps you should also check out form of the mindfulness-based therapies. I am thinking particularly of Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) or mindfulness-based Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). These both take a mindful approach to dealing with destructive thought patterns. Both systems have a lot of medical literature to back them up now. ACT, apparently, has been very successful in helping people deal with anxiety disorders and with depression. It might also be useful with OCD. A good place to start with ACT, in my opinion, could be Russ Harris' book "The Happiness Trap".
Everyone talks about the weather, but nobody does anything about it - Mark Twain.
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Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Virgo » Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:35 pm

Jesse wrote:I purchased this: Agar-35 From http://www.himalayanremedies.com/agar-35/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


How much of it do you take?

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Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Jesse » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:12 pm

I haven't received it yet.
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Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Virgo » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:10 am

Jesse wrote:I haven't received it yet.

Just regulate it based on if you are accumulating too much heat or not.

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Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Nemo » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:45 am

A healthy meditator stops feeding an intrusive thought with attention and it runs out of steam. I would think there is a physical component and it is not caused by neurotransmitter imbalance. So many ailments of neorons and nerves can now be traced to inflammation it will likely replace the serontogenic model. In the meantime watch your diet for foods that promote inflammatory reactions and seem to worsen your condition. Start with an elimination diet and a journal. Keep up with the research. Immunology and molecular biology are exploding right now. Doing things like taking 18,000 patients with an ailment and comparing them to a few hundred thousand healthy individuals and comparing roughly 7.2 million mapped genes. Needles in haystacks are being found monthly now. Causation of mental disorders may be close.

Do you have any other health problems?
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Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Jesse » Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:30 am

Virgo wrote:
Jesse wrote:I haven't received it yet.

Just regulate it based on if you are accumulating too much heat or not.

Kevin


Alright, Will let you know much it helps.

If meditation seems to have a beneficial effect perhaps you should also check out form of the mindfulness-based therapies. I am thinking particularly of Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) or mindfulness-based Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). These both take a mindful approach to dealing with destructive thought patterns. Both systems have a lot of medical literature to back them up now. ACT, apparently, has been very successful in helping people deal with anxiety disorders and with depression. It might also be useful with OCD. A good place to start with ACT, in my opinion, could be Russ Harris' book "The Happiness Trap".


Well I have been doing the whole mindfulness thing for a few years at this point, since I started out on TNH Books. I may look into it, I've read all about the whole mindfulness / CBT Combination.. seem's like I already use some of the same strategies.

A healthy meditator stops feeding an intrusive thought with attention and it runs out of steam. I would think there is a physical component and it is not caused by neurotransmitter imbalance. So many ailments of neorons and nerves can now be traced to inflammation it will likely replace the serontogenic model. In the meantime watch your diet for foods that promote inflammatory reactions and seem to worsen your condition. Start with an elimination diet and a journal. Keep up with the research. Immunology and molecular biology are exploding right now. Doing things like taking 18,000 patients with an ailment and comparing them to a few hundred thousand healthy individuals and comparing roughly 7.2 million mapped genes. Needles in haystacks are being found monthly now. Causation of mental disorders may be close.

Do you have any other health problems?


Yeah that's the problem, when it's possible to stop there's no problem. With OCD sometimes it won't stop no matter what you do, I think I've said it previously.. It's like a build-up of mental energy that just spawns off thoughts non-stop. The journal is a good idea, I have been considering trying it. I've thought for a long time I may have some type of seizure disorder, but there's no way to know without expensive medical scans, etc. I have definitely suffered a couple seizures that were probably medication induced. There's alot of features to my issue that make me believe it could be a seizure related problem, but that's another story. :namaste:
"We know nothing at all. All our knowledge is but the knowledge of schoolchildren. The real nature of things we shall never know." - Albert Einstein
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Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Knotty Veneer » Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:29 am

Jesse wrote:
Well I have been doing the whole mindfulness thing for a few years at this point, since I started out on TNH Books. I may look into it, I've read all about the whole mindfulness / CBT Combination.. seem's like I already use some of the same strategies.


Well to get the most out of these approaches, especially if your OCD is severe enough, you probably need to do more than read a few TNH books. You might consider seeing a mindfulness -based therapist.
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Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby LastLegend » Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:56 am

Jesse, your Chi does not follow well :) There is blockage. My opinion only don't beat too hard. When I master my Chi flow, I will teach you. :)
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