Obsessive Thoughts

A place to discuss health and fitness, healthy diets, etc.

Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Jesse » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:47 pm

So I have OCD, specifically what's called 'pure ocd', obsessions without compulsions. I take medications for it, but still suffer a great deal from the anxiety and from the obsessive thoughts. I am curious what some alternative methods of dealing with it are?

I take propranolol, which is a beta blocker (It blocks adrenaline and helps with the physical symptoms of anxiety.), as well as fluvoxamine (ssri for ocd).

From what I have observed in meditation, it just feels like an enormous amount of energy in the mind, nervous energy maybe, and controlling it is just out of the question, I try to stay mindful of it and not get caught up in it, but it's draining, let me tell you..

Does anyone else suffering from OCD? What do you do to alleviate your symptoms? Alternative medication suggestions are welcomed also.

Thanks. :)
"We know nothing at all. All our knowledge is but the knowledge of schoolchildren. The real nature of things we shall never know." - Albert Einstein
User avatar
Jesse
 
Posts: 681
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 6:54 am
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Mother's Lap » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:56 pm

Yantra yoga and bimala or agar-35 help with such rlung disorders.
The path of analytical reasoning is precise and acute—
But it’s just more delusion, good for nothing goat-shit.
The oral instructions are very profound
But not if you don’t put them into practice.
~ Patrul Rinpoche
User avatar
Mother's Lap
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:05 pm

Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Ayu » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:51 pm

Two friends of mine suffered from something like that.
For them conversational therapy was helpful. One friend went to hospital for three month. She was already 42 years old and one doctor said she is too old for a therapy. He recommended conventional medicine, but she didn't want to take that.
In the hospital they did some different therapies.
Her problem was that she unconciously didn't allow herself to get better. She thought she didn't deserve it. After the hospital she felt better but then it was a shock to come back home into the old tracks...
Then she found a good doctor for conversational therapy and since then everything is getting better. She solves heavy problems on her job and she's finally able to sleep in the night. :smile:
I'm very happy for her.
Because, if our mothers, who have been kind to us
From beginningless time, are suffering,
What can we do with (just) our own happiness?
From 10th of 37 Bodhisattva Practices
User avatar
Ayu
 
Posts: 1027
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:25 am
Location: Europe

Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:22 pm

Jesse wrote:So I have OCD, specifically what's called 'pure ocd', obsessions without compulsions. I take medications for it, but still suffer a great deal from the anxiety and from the obsessive thoughts. I am curious what some alternative methods of dealing with it are?

I take propranolol, which is a beta blocker (It blocks adrenaline and helps with the physical symptoms of anxiety.), as well as fluvoxamine (ssri for ocd).

From what I have observed in meditation, it just feels like an enormous amount of energy in the mind, nervous energy maybe, and controlling it is just out of the question, I try to stay mindful of it and not get caught up in it, but it's draining, let me tell you..

Does anyone else suffering from OCD? What do you do to alleviate your symptoms? Alternative medication suggestions are welcomed also.

Thanks. :)



Not sure i've ever been diagnosed with anything other than "general anxiety" or something similar, but I definitely have the obsessive thoughts issue. Sometimes it feels downright physically exhausting to have the same thing looping through my head. I've also had a few episodes of panic attacks via obsessive thought over the years that were fairly crippling.

The things that help me the most are exercise (literally, I do pushups when I feel a thought-loop starting up sometimes), and a range of meditations on identity...the most basic being something like asking "who is having these thoughts", and looking for the thinker. I've also tried EMDR during my worst times and got ok results I thought, but it is not very different from meditation really.

I take a big dose of st. Johns wort, that's about it. I have in the past been prescribed both Zoloft and Xanax for these sorts of problems, but I found the side effects so bad I dropped them.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2567
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA

Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Jesse » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:48 pm

unfortunately, exercise only worsens the problem. It seems that exciting the body also excites the mind. Exercising when i feeling good, does help prevent episodes, though. Also unfortunately there aren't any techniques that actually work for ocd, with the exception of meditation which results in thoughts becoming very 'transparent', if that makes sense. Normally thoughts are very solid and what-not, if I can meditate and reach a state where the thoughts more or less pass though and never touch my mind, that works.. but that's a very hard thing to do. (for me.)

I see a psychiatrist for help with medications, but honestly there isn't much they can do for OCD except manage the symptoms.. it's sort of frustration and depressing. I'm not sure if conversation therapy would be helpful, but im doubtful of it. To be honest, lately I've been pretty frustrated and angry with my condition, im sick of dealing with it.


Yantra yoga and bimala or agar-35 help with such rlung disorders.


I'm not very fit, so I think yoga's out of the question haha.. as for the medicines.. do they actually help?
I have in the past been prescribed both Zoloft and Xanax for these sorts of problems, but I found the side effects so bad I dropped them.


I agree about the side effects, I've had to yo-yo the dosage of my SSRI to get the best benefit / less side effects.. it's hard.
"We know nothing at all. All our knowledge is but the knowledge of schoolchildren. The real nature of things we shall never know." - Albert Einstein
User avatar
Jesse
 
Posts: 681
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 6:54 am
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby anjali » Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:41 am

Jesse wrote:Alternative medication suggestions are welcomed also.

Natural remedies for OCD. If you are not opposed to taking fish oil, a chiropractor friend of mine swears by it. She has an ocd son who manages symptoms with pharmaceutical grade fish-oil. Also, she has recommended it to other parents for their children with a good success rate.
  • The object of the game is to go on playing it. --John Von Neumann
  • All activities are like the games children play. If started, they can never be finished. They are only completed once you let them be, like castles made of sand. --Khenpo Nyoshul Rinpoche
anjali
 
Posts: 355
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:33 pm

Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Mother's Lap » Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:58 am

Jesse wrote:
Yantra yoga and bimala or agar-35 help with such rlung disorders.


I'm not very fit, so I think yoga's out of the question haha.. as for the medicines.. do they actually help?

Don't need to be fit, the elderly and the overweight all have the ability to do Yantra as there are positions for the less flexible included. The medicines do indeed work, in fact they're quite powerful.
The path of analytical reasoning is precise and acute—
But it’s just more delusion, good for nothing goat-shit.
The oral instructions are very profound
But not if you don’t put them into practice.
~ Patrul Rinpoche
User avatar
Mother's Lap
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:05 pm

Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Mother's Lap » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:17 am

Also apparently Semde (the medicine not the Dzogchen class) combined with Agar-35 has been used to help recovering opiate addicts which may be of use to you although I haven't been able to confirm this myself.
The path of analytical reasoning is precise and acute—
But it’s just more delusion, good for nothing goat-shit.
The oral instructions are very profound
But not if you don’t put them into practice.
~ Patrul Rinpoche
User avatar
Mother's Lap
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:05 pm

Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby LastLegend » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:21 am

Thought is not you.
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)
User avatar
LastLegend
 
Posts: 2186
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:46 pm
Location: Washington DC

Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Kaore » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:03 am

Jesse wrote:I take propranolol, which is a beta blocker (It blocks adrenaline and helps with the physical symptoms of anxiety.)

hello, I hate this kind of medication where the purpose is to just block, it is really desesperating.
My experience is you have to avoid nothing and this is actually what this drug is doing, avoiding energy that are going to be trapped, condensed and released badly. So my suggestion is to not give up and try to find ways through the help of medication or not to harmonize your sense of well-being. You need to feel good for god sakes, that's a normal thing.
User avatar
Kaore
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:30 pm

Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Jesse » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:30 am

Kaore wrote:
Jesse wrote:I take propranolol, which is a beta blocker (It blocks adrenaline and helps with the physical symptoms of anxiety.)

hello, I hate this kind of medication where the purpose is to just block, it is really desesperating.
My experience is you have to avoid nothing and this is actually what this drug is doing, avoiding energy that are going to be trapped, condensed and released badly. So my suggestion is to not give up and try to find ways through the help of medication or not to harmonize your sense of well-being. You need to feel good for god sakes, that's a normal thing.


Propranolols actually a high blood pressure medication. It's used off-label for stage fight, performance anxiety, and for generalized anxiety. It's useful for these thing's because it's prevents our bodies from releasing adrenaline. (Basically.) Which is not a bad thing, people with OCD suffer from abnormal levels of anxiety and stress and have way too much adrenaline being released. It's not something that's totally manageable without medication. Otherwise I wouldn't take any. I'm not a fan of being medicated really.
"We know nothing at all. All our knowledge is but the knowledge of schoolchildren. The real nature of things we shall never know." - Albert Einstein
User avatar
Jesse
 
Posts: 681
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 6:54 am
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Dragon » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:28 pm

When I was a child I was a "counter," and as an adult I became a "checker." I notice that when my diet is poor, the symptoms are worse. What is your diet/exercise routine like? Sometimes it can be as simple as having a food allergy/sensitivity, believe it or not. Our gut is our second brain and if there are digestive problems, neurological disorders, such as OCD, can arise from the imbalance in our system. (P.S. Medications can cause further damage to our digestive system, thereby compounding the issue.)
User avatar
Dragon
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:29 pm

Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Jesse » Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:31 pm

Dragon wrote:When I was a child I was a "counter," and as an adult I became a "checker." I notice that when my diet is poor, the symptoms are worse. What is your diet/exercise routine like? Sometimes it can be as simple as having a food allergy/sensitivity, believe it or not. Our gut is our second brain and if there are digestive problems, neurological disorders, such as OCD, can arise from the imbalance in our system. (P.S. Medications can cause further damage to our digestive system, thereby compounding the issue.)


Hmm My diet is pretty unhealthy. Some days I eat well, other days I eat nothing but junk food and coffee / energy drinks. Some days I eat nothing. Really depends... I have tried pribiotics are a supplement with decent success recently though. I agree with you on the stomach thing.
"We know nothing at all. All our knowledge is but the knowledge of schoolchildren. The real nature of things we shall never know." - Albert Einstein
User avatar
Jesse
 
Posts: 681
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 6:54 am
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Dragon » Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:08 pm

Jesse wrote:
Dragon wrote:When I was a child I was a "counter," and as an adult I became a "checker." I notice that when my diet is poor, the symptoms are worse. What is your diet/exercise routine like? Sometimes it can be as simple as having a food allergy/sensitivity, believe it or not. Our gut is our second brain and if there are digestive problems, neurological disorders, such as OCD, can arise from the imbalance in our system. (P.S. Medications can cause further damage to our digestive system, thereby compounding the issue.)


Hmm My diet is pretty unhealthy. Some days I eat well, other days I eat nothing but junk food and coffee / energy drinks. Some days I eat nothing. Really depends... I have tried pribiotics are a supplement with decent success recently though. I agree with you on the stomach thing.


Maybe try some baby steps in terms of bettering your diet? Just try to add more raw fruit and veggies into your diet bit by bit? I always recommend that people try to start their day off with a 'raw' breakfast... perhaps a green smoothie? A simple yet delicious one I like to make is throwing a frozen banana (make sure it's very ripe-- never eat a green or yellow banana without brown spots-- very bad for digestion!) into a high speed blender (like a Vitamix, but you don't necessarily need an expensive high speed blender to make a smoothie!), along with 1/2 cup of berries, 2 cups water and/or ice, 2 pitted dates for added natural sweetness, a few leaves of kale, and maybe even 1-2 TB of almond butter or hemp seeds for some good fat and protein. Maybe throw in some chia seeds, too, for some omega 3's. It's really quite yummy. I don't like fruit and even I enjoy drinking it. It will give you lots of energy throughout the day and is relatively inexpensive to make every morning (of course, you can change up what fruit and veggies you put in it-- variety is key!).

But anyway, if you start taking small steps like that and just replacing at least your breakfast (or start *having* breakfast!) with something like that, you might start seeing a small difference not only in your OCD symptoms, but maybe even in your energy levels and other things as well. Do that for a few weeks/months and just let the habit form and stick. Then maybe after that you can start looking into lunch and dinnertime. But I bet once you start off the day with something healthy and nutritious that will help heal your digestive system (due to the raw fruits and veggies in it), you'll start to crave better foods naturally over time. But the key is to be consistent and do it every morning, and stay away from any animal products, processed foods, coffee/tea/caffeine, and grains. And if smoothies aren't your thing, you could always go the juice route and juice your fruits and veggies instead. Or just even eat a mono meal of just fruit! Whatever you think would serve you best. And while doing this, make sure to journal how you're feeling and how your OCD symptoms are. Maybe you'll find that fruit is making it worse! Or maybe you'll find that the anxiety and OCD symptoms are less, but once you start eating "unhealthy" again during the day, they reappear. So just give it time and really start to be mindful of how your body is reacting.
User avatar
Dragon
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:29 pm

Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Jesse » Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:48 am

These are good ideas. The calendar thing especially. Not sure if I have the dedication to do it though. I will try it.

ive tried cutting caffeine out a few times, either it seems to make a huge difference or none. It really depends on the severeity of my OCD that day.
It can be anything from rediculous repeating thoughs, all the way to thinking I might grope someone inappropriately, or when im around strangers often violent, sexual or groqueste thoughts will come up directed against them, and it just makes me miserable. (It's not like I think they can read my mind, but my body responds as if they can regaurdless.)

EG: (Here's an example of what it's like:) I meet a cashier to pay for my groceries and im already a little nervous, i start sweating, im trying to calm myself down and redirect all this tons of nervous energy into harmless outlets, if my mind starts wanting to say bitch "Ill make my mind say "I think your beautiful", then my mind will quickly outter "Fat ugly bitch, why dont you kill yourself", ahem. At this point my body is filled wih adrenaline and I just want to get out of there! My mind really hates it when I block it's thoughts. I generally even try to talk my mind down, it's usually a waste of time. It's constantly angry, and degrading towards me / everyone else.

Now let's say I exit the store, and I pass by some guy, could be normal lookiong guy anything.. the thought will come up "god damn you stink", and it's likely I didn't even get catch a wiff of said person. I tend to laugh alot of this stuff off until my stress levels get out of hand. Then it's just like fighting off a barrage of these deragatory, mean spirited thoughts. 99.9% of my energy goes to trying to mindfully breath through these occurrences. (My mind hate's when I that too.)

All sounds pretty nutty, thus is my life. Not to say I don't recieve help on occasion, just yesterday it got so bad I was almost in tears, I prayed for amanita buddha to help me out, and nearly at once I was filled with absolute peace and calm. Not a single thought hurt any longer, my body felt light as a feather, and my heart felt filled with compassion.

These thing's of thing's happen to me more or less on a daily basis, it's just what I've grown used to. Even my dreams are filled with such craziness.

Ideally I don't like sharing these kinds of stories because the site frowns on them, but I felt it was useful in the context of this thread, All in all I am doing well and I feel like my OCD is part of my own bad Karma, I am dealing with it the best I can.

Truely appreciate all of the metta and suggestions.
"We know nothing at all. All our knowledge is but the knowledge of schoolchildren. The real nature of things we shall never know." - Albert Einstein
User avatar
Jesse
 
Posts: 681
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 6:54 am
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Karma Dorje » Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:28 am

The energy of keeping these thoughts under control and not verbalized feeds them. Have you tried as a meditation (in a place where you can be alone and just let go) to just instantly verbalize what comes to mind and reflect on its lack of essence? This can help you to take some of the energy out of these thought patterns. I have had episodes of what you describe while on retreat. I think that the sort of method that Lama Tsultrim Allione describes in her book Feed Your Demons might help. So much of the problem is the feeling of shame and disappointment, and I think it is this energy that these thought patterns feed on. If you can relax a little and not feel that emotional jolt and the fear associated with inadvertently vocalizing, it may be easier to deal with.

I also had success with just replacing these thought patterns with mantra recitation.

I agree that Tibetan medicine such as emakirikiri suggests might help. A change of diet definitely will, but that is best looked at with a Tibetan or Ayurvedic doctor.

Good luck with this. Don't be too down on yourself. We all have things in our minds we need to tame. Imagine that your mind is like a small child and just show it kindness and patience. With persistence, it will come around!
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."
~Arthur Carlson
User avatar
Karma Dorje
 
Posts: 903
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:35 pm

Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby SeekerNo1000003 » Sun Jul 20, 2014 4:16 am

I would like to point to a couple of resources you may find useful:

1) Article by Michael Leven titled"From Madness to Mindfulness: OCD, Mental Illness, Buddhism, and me"
http://www.buddhistvihara.com/newslette ... nessto.htm

2) years ago I came across an article by Boris Pisman titled "My story -- how yoga helped me with panic attacks and obsessive-compulsive disorders."
This article does not seem to be available online anymore. However, you may wish to check out the following: http://www.treatocd.com/

Years ago I found these articles helpful. I haven't read them in a while though! :)
SeekerNo1000003
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:22 pm

Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Motova » Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:00 am

I have the same problem as you. Taking refuge is my medicine, and it helps enormously. I also chant Green Tara's 10 syllable mantra, she doesn't care if you call her nasty names just apologize then and for the future and continue!
Motova
 
Posts: 279
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:05 pm

Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Vajrasvapna » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:53 pm

I would recommend you to practice some kind of seated yoga or qi gong and be careful about your diet.

The tsa movement from this book: http://amzn.com/1401928714 are the best, very simple to do, in this another book: http://amzn.com/B005O0VEHO there is a better explanation about it, and other practices. You may also take this online course: http://www.glidewing.com/twr/awakening_home.html

Here a simple form of seated Qi Gong: http://amzn.com/B00DQBSK2K, more easy to learn than the previous exercise.

To some diet instruction this book is the best: http://amzn.com/0892819367

If you want to try some Tibetan medication, I would recommend Padma Nervotonin.
"Difficulties are our spiritual teachers;
Obstacles are a spur to Dharma practice:
Suffering is a broom to sweep away our negative actions,
Do no regard them with dislike."

Kharak Gomchung

"If any teaching you study, reflect upon, or expound becomes an effective remedy against your disturbing emotions[...] then that is called a Mahayana teaching[...]
if your intention is only the eight worldly concerns, your activity is called a black Dharma practice." Guru Padma


"Hell is not punishment, it's training." Shenryu Suzuki
User avatar
Vajrasvapna
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Fri May 03, 2013 1:45 pm

Re: Obsessive Thoughts

Postby Virgo » Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:21 am

Jesse wrote:I'm not very fit, so I think yoga's out of the question haha.. as for the medicines.. do they actually help?

Yes, this is real medicine, very potent. Although it may take a while for it to produce it's full effect. Agar 35 should be good. In particular though, it is important for you to see a doctor of Tibetan medicine.

It's very important, as OCD may shorten your lifespan (due to stress that it causes and etcetera). You don't want that.

Kevin
User avatar
Virgo
 
Posts: 1419
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:47 am
Location: Globe

Next

Return to Wellness, Diet and Fitness

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

>