Madyamika Sautrantika vs Prasangika

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Mariusz
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Re: Madyamika Sautrantika vs Prasangika

Postby Mariusz » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:38 pm

I like Je Tsongkhapa, as for example initiator of Yamantaka Ekavira Single Hero HYT system from Manjusri, because He wrote (in Tsongkhapa's Final Exposition of Wisdom; page.158):
"during states subsequent to meditative equipoise on the stages of generation and completion (of Highest Yoga Tantra)
one takes suchness to mind within analyzing it...with respect to that occasion, do not posit analytical meditation
as one-pointed meditation"
and there were many masters of His Yamantaka system who got Vajrayana realizations :smile:

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Malcolm
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Re: Madyamika Sautrantika vs Prasangika

Postby Malcolm » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:43 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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conebeckham
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Re: Madyamika Sautrantika vs Prasangika

Postby conebeckham » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:57 pm

I think Tsong Khapa's elaboration of "inherent" emptiness can be helpful in clarifying the "object of negation" --the mistaken "assumption" ( I use that, instead of "idea," because I think our wrong conception of existence is almost "pre-conscious," it's a habitual propensity) that phenomena each demonstrate/possess/"contain"/"embody" an essence/definition/reality.

At any rate, such elaboration was helpful for me. Once one understands that the "assumption" or thorough-going habitual misconception, though, and goes back to Nagarjuna and Chandrakirti, one finds that such elaborations aren't necessary. In fact, they're "forced" and lead to absurd consequences.


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

Mariusz
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Re: Madyamika Sautrantika vs Prasangika

Postby Mariusz » Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:46 am


Caz
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Re: Madyamika Sautrantika vs Prasangika

Postby Caz » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:09 am

[/quote]

Thats true Gelugpa's Believe Tsongkhapa's Doctrine distills the essence of Nagarjunas teachings. ;)[/quote]

yes, whereas non-Gelugpas think he was deluded by a spirit posing as Manjushri.

N[/quote]

Wow Namdrol its no wonder why the schools would have problems with each other if this is what they would say of people who did not think the same way. Considering he was a Keeper of Vinaya and certainly we all know the benefits of refuge vows with regards to spirits that line of said reasoning really does sound petty. :jumping:
Abandoning Dharma is, in the final analysis, disparaging the Hinayana because of the Mahayana; favoring the Hinayana on account of the Mahayana; playing off sutra against tantra; playing off the four classes of the tantras against each other; favoring one of the Tibetan schools—the Sakya, Gelug, Kagyu, or Nyingma—and disparaging the rest; and so on. In other words, we abandon Dharma any time we favor our own tenets and disparage the rest.

Liberation in the Palm of your hand~Kyabje Pabongkha Rinpoche.

Mariusz
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Re: Madyamika Sautrantika vs Prasangika

Postby Mariusz » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:17 am


Mariusz
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Re: Madyamika Sautrantika vs Prasangika

Postby Mariusz » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:39 am


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Malcolm
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Re: Madyamika Sautrantika vs Prasangika

Postby Malcolm » Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:34 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Malcolm
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Re: Madyamika Sautrantika vs Prasangika

Postby Malcolm » Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:35 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Malcolm
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Re: Madyamika Sautrantika vs Prasangika

Postby Malcolm » Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:59 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

Mariusz
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:08 pm

Re: Madyamika Sautrantika vs Prasangika

Postby Mariusz » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:00 pm


Mariusz
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Re: Madyamika Sautrantika vs Prasangika

Postby Mariusz » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:06 pm


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Malcolm
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Re: Madyamika Sautrantika vs Prasangika

Postby Malcolm » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:21 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

Mariusz
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:08 pm

Re: Madyamika Sautrantika vs Prasangika

Postby Mariusz » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:28 pm


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Malcolm
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Re: Madyamika Sautrantika vs Prasangika

Postby Malcolm » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:55 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Malcolm
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Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Madyamika Sautrantika vs Prasangika

Postby Malcolm » Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:01 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

Mariusz
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:08 pm

Re: Madyamika Sautrantika vs Prasangika

Postby Mariusz » Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:09 pm

Last edited by Mariusz on Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Malcolm
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Re: Madyamika Sautrantika vs Prasangika

Postby Malcolm » Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:10 pm

Last edited by Malcolm on Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.




འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

Mariusz
Posts: 708
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:08 pm

Re: Madyamika Sautrantika vs Prasangika

Postby Mariusz » Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:13 pm


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Malcolm
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Re: Madyamika Sautrantika vs Prasangika

Postby Malcolm » Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:23 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa


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