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Did Buddha Say to Expose Wrong Doing? - Dhamma Wheel

Did Buddha Say to Expose Wrong Doing?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
fragrant herbs
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Did Buddha Say to Expose Wrong Doing?

Postby fragrant herbs » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:44 pm

People are telling me that it is Wrong Speech to expose wrong doers, but then someone else said that Buddha said that you should expose them. Does anyone have an answer with text? Thank you.

Reductor
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Re: Did Buddha Say to Expose Wrong Doing?

Postby Reductor » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:27 pm

223. Overcome the angry by non-anger; overcome the wicked by goodness; overcome the miser by generosity; overcome the liar by truth.

from the dhammapada. Seems clear. But bear in mind the next verse.

224. Speak the truth; yield not to anger; when asked, give even if you only have a little. By these three means can one reach the presence of the gods

fragrant herbs
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Re: Did Buddha Say to Expose Wrong Doing?

Postby fragrant herbs » Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:07 pm

thanks. it makes sense.

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bodom
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Re: Did Buddha Say to Expose Wrong Doing?

Postby bodom » Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:33 pm

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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bodom
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Re: Did Buddha Say to Expose Wrong Doing?

Postby bodom » Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:37 pm

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

Reductor
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Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:52 am
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Did Buddha Say to Expose Wrong Doing?

Postby Reductor » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:22 pm

Thanks bodom for that last sutta from the AN. Its new to me and good to bear in mind.

fragrant herbs
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Re: Did Buddha Say to Expose Wrong Doing?

Postby fragrant herbs » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:47 pm

So then if a teacher in a sangha is harming some of his/her students by sleeping with them or by verbal abuse, we don't speak out?

Reductor
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Re: Did Buddha Say to Expose Wrong Doing?

Postby Reductor » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:55 pm

I would say that speaking out may be necessary in such a case. What is of the utmost importance, however, is that YOUR motive be proper. If your motive isn't of the soundest kind, then it is very likely that you overstate the fault and communicate it in a way that causes more harm than good.

If upon deep consideration you do believe it best to speak up, then do so with as much goodwill and skill as you can muster, as put forward in bodom's first post above.

Edit, added the word 'harm' above.
Last edited by Reductor on Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kim OHara
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Re: Did Buddha Say to Expose Wrong Doing?

Postby Kim OHara » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:39 pm


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ground
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Re: Did Buddha Say to Expose Wrong Doing?

Postby ground » Sat Jul 02, 2011 1:35 am


santa100
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Re: Did Buddha Say to Expose Wrong Doing?

Postby santa100 » Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:26 am

If it's true that a teacher is sleeping with some students or verbally abusing them, then he/she automatically lost the status of a teacher. This is someone who's not only breaking the Vinaya but also breaking the common law of the society. We should take appropriate measures in accordance with the Vinaya and the law of the land to stop this criminal from doing further harm to the community.

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ground
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Re: Did Buddha Say to Expose Wrong Doing?

Postby ground » Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:51 am


Reductor
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Re: Did Buddha Say to Expose Wrong Doing?

Postby Reductor » Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:02 am

I do not think there are enough details put forward from the op to warrent debates just yet. Or has there been? No mention of whether the teacher is ordained or lay, nor even the tradition. How many people involved is not stated, nor have observations of any kind been offered by the op.

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Kim OHara
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Re: Did Buddha Say to Expose Wrong Doing?

Postby Kim OHara » Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:56 am


fragrant herbs
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Re: Did Buddha Say to Expose Wrong Doing?

Postby fragrant herbs » Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:41 am

I can say it again in a different way, I hope different. If an ordained person is sleeping with others or verbally abusing them, then one should speak out? It is not Wrong Speech?

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Spiny O'Norman
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Re: Did Buddha Say to Expose Wrong Doing?

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:52 am


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ground
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Re: Did Buddha Say to Expose Wrong Doing?

Postby ground » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:48 am


fragrant herbs
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Re: Did Buddha Say to Expose Wrong Doing?

Postby fragrant herbs » Sat Jul 02, 2011 1:17 pm

Thanks for your kind posts.

whynotme
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Re: Did Buddha Say to Expose Wrong Doing?

Postby whynotme » Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:15 am

Please stop following me

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Kim OHara
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Re: Did Buddha Say to Expose Wrong Doing?

Postby Kim OHara » Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:06 am



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