Consequences of caesarean birth

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Consequences of caesarean birth

Postby Thrasymachus » Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:37 am

What are the possibles consequences of being born via c-section?
Does it have consequences on the chakras?
What long-term effects manifest when the baby grows into an adult?

I am just asking for now without sharing any of my thoughts or concerns, so I do not color the initial debate.
Also for non-native speakers of English who may be confused caesarean/cesarean/c-section is when a baby is born via surgery rather than natural delivery.
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Re: Consequences of caesarean birth

Postby Red Faced Buddha » Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:10 am

Thrasymachus wrote:What are the possibles consequences of being born via c-section?
Does it have consequences on the chakras?
What long-term effects manifest when the baby grows into an adult?

I am just asking for now without sharing any of my thoughts or concerns, so I do not color the initial debate.
Also for non-native speakers of English who may be confused caesarean/cesarean/c-section is when a baby is born via surgery rather than natural delivery.


I don't think it would.I'm not a doctor but I don't see how a caesarean section can effect a child's growth and development.I'm not very knowledgeable in spiritual matters either but it shouldn't really matter whether it will effect your chakras.Children are delivered through c-sections when a regular birth would put the mother or child at serious risk(although I've heard some people request c-sections,for reasons behind my comprehension :shrug: .)
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Re: Consequences of caesarean birth

Postby dakini_boi » Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:16 am

According to Taoist medicine, the uterine contractions at birth put pressure on the newborn's soft fontanel. This stimulates the brain and causes the baby to gulp and swallow a portion of essence (jing), which descend from the brain to the lower abdomen. This is called "swallowing the mud pill" (mud pill is ni wan.) This jing repairs trauma at the navel. So in caesarian birth, there is no "swallowing the mud pill," (or at least it is limited) therefore the child's development of jing may be incomplete.
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Re: Consequences of caesarean birth

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:53 pm

Interesting^

And so in regard to those of us who were born via c-section and/or who were not breast-fed (Chögyal Namkhai Norbu wrote that being breastfed is necessary for building character later in life, which implies that breastfeeding might be related to 'Prenatal Jing'), it would be very good to look into a Chulen that can help to restore Prenatal Jing.

It would also make sense that it would be important—for those who were born via c-section and/or were not breastfed—to more closely follow Tibetan Medicine's advice on sexual activity.
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Re: Consequences of caesarean birth

Postby catmoon » Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:10 pm

Hm. The Buddha was born (so it is said) through his mother's right side. I wonder how that fits in with the mud pill theory.
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Re: Consequences of caesarean birth

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:12 pm

According to Longchen Rabjam and other Masters, Buddha Shakyamuni was actually Fully Enlightened like Manvantaras ago, so I don't think he needed to 'swallow the mud pill'. And I don't know if the Buddha Shakyamuni being born that way is to be taken literally at all either.
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Re: Consequences of caesarean birth

Postby Red Faced Buddha » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:29 pm

catmoon wrote:Hm. The Buddha was born (so it is said) through his mother's right side. I wonder how that fits in with the mud pill theory.


That's just a myth or a metaphor,it shouldn't be taken seriously.
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Re: Consequences of caesarean birth

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:18 pm

I've only viewed a few studies, read a few things here and there..but in terms of what was there (possibly simply due to lack of data), the claim that either lack of breastfeeding or c section has an effect on the physical well being of the child have little to nothing to back them up.

On the other hand, one can reasonably infer that without breastfeeding, a part of the development and relationship with the mother might suffer, so breastfeeding is preferable if possible, and if not all attempts should be made to provide similar time and experience between mother and child. There is also no question that C-sections are difficult and traumatic for the mother, and in many cases is totally unneccessary (my wife gave birth to both my kids "naturally" and with no drugs - so i'm all for it) which by extension effects quality of the relationship/bonding with the newborn. To me these are more sound reasons than any of the nonsensical "research" i've seen from partisans on the subject.

That said, if someone has actual studies, and not just pronouncements of opinion, i'd be interested to see them.
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Re: Consequences of caesarean birth

Postby Yudron » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:37 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:I've only viewed a few studies, read a few things here and there..but in terms of what was there (possibly simply due to lack of data), the claim that either lack of breastfeeding or c section has an effect on the physical well being of the child have little to nothing to back them up.

On the other hand, one can reasonably infer that without breastfeeding, a part of the development and relationship with the mother might suffer, so breastfeeding is preferable if possible, and if not all attempts should be made to provide similar time and experience between mother and child. There is also no question that C-sections are difficult and traumatic for the mother, and in many cases is totally unneccessary (my wife gave birth to both my kids "naturally" and with no drugs - so i'm all for it) which by extension effects quality of the relationship/bonding with the newborn. To me these are more sound reasons than any of the nonsensical "research" i've seen from partisans on the subject.

That said, if someone has actual studies, and not just pronouncements of opinion, i'd be interested to see them.


The benefits breastfeeding for a baby' immune system have long been scientifically established, and no one in medicine has doubts about this. If the child dies from contagious disease, that is rather a big obstacle to health!

A c-section is less physically traumatic for the baby than vaginal delivery. I've attended both vaginal and caesarian births, and it is quite obvious from the shape of the baby's skull that they have been squeezed through a hole. Of course, it is to be avoided whenever possible, primarily for the mother's sake.
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Re: Consequences of caesarean birth

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:06 am

Yudron wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote:I've only viewed a few studies, read a few things here and there..but in terms of what was there (possibly simply due to lack of data), the claim that either lack of breastfeeding or c section has an effect on the physical well being of the child have little to nothing to back them up.

On the other hand, one can reasonably infer that without breastfeeding, a part of the development and relationship with the mother might suffer, so breastfeeding is preferable if possible, and if not all attempts should be made to provide similar time and experience between mother and child. There is also no question that C-sections are difficult and traumatic for the mother, and in many cases is totally unneccessary (my wife gave birth to both my kids "naturally" and with no drugs - so i'm all for it) which by extension effects quality of the relationship/bonding with the newborn. To me these are more sound reasons than any of the nonsensical "research" i've seen from partisans on the subject.

That said, if someone has actual studies, and not just pronouncements of opinion, i'd be interested to see them.


The benefits breastfeeding for a baby' immune system have long been scientifically established, and no one in medicine has doubts about this. If the child dies from contagious disease, that is rather a big obstacle to health!

A c-section is less physically traumatic for the baby than vaginal delivery. I've attended both vaginal and caesarian births, and it is quite obvious from the shape of the baby's skull that they have been squeezed through a hole. Of course, it is to be avoided whenever possible, primarily for the mother's sake.



If I recall right some argue there is actually not that much data to support the huge boost in immunity from the mothers antibodies that many people claim exists, the only quantifiable data in that department shows that within int he first months various GI tract issues might be avoided, the last time I talked with an authority about this though, was a long time ago. The medical communities acceptance and recommendations of breastfeeding aren't just about increased immunity I believe, there is obviously a long and interesting history there.

As I said though, there are certainly other compelling reasons to do it, and there is evidence of some benefit to be sure.

Both my kids have totally round heads, and never got conehead. the first birth was traumatic due to an issue with fetal monitoring (long story). The second birth at home didn't look fun, but my wife recvoered fast, and with less trauma than I have seen from anyone I have known who had a c section...just what I can measure, in terms of getting up. moving around etc. Of course none of that proves anything other than the fact that my wife is tough and lucky! I fully understand that C section is sometimes necessary (just as it is sometimes necessary to NOT breastfeed for a variety of reasons)..just from everything i've read the practice is a default rather than something done out of necessity - which is what rankles some folks.
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Re: Consequences of caesarean birth

Postby zerwe » Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:10 am

There is a body of new research emerging that highlights how c-section births disrupt the development
of normal bacterial flora. This is thought to have a significant impact on the development of particular states of
disease, as well as, cognitive development.

Shaun :namaste:
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Re: Consequences of caesarean birth

Postby beautiful breath » Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:05 pm

zerwe wrote:There is a body of new research emerging that highlights how c-section births disrupt the development
of normal bacterial flora. This is thought to have a significant impact on the development of particular states of
disease, as well as, cognitive development.

Shaun :namaste:


Sources?
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Re: Consequences of caesarean birth

Postby Nemo » Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:53 am

I read the same thing in some journal somewhere. The gut biota of c-section babies is markedly different from vag births. It only vaguely hinted at possible consequences. Autoimmune disorders where the most probable correlation. Who knew being squished though a dirty vag was actually good for you.
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Re: Consequences of caesarean birth

Postby greentara » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:05 am

Nemo,Whilst browsing I came upon "I read the same thing in some journal somewhere. The gut biota of c-section babies is markedly different from vag births. It only vaguely hinted at possible consequences. Autoimmune disorders where the most probable correlation. Who knew being squished though a dirty vag was actually good for you"
I also came across an article recently in 'The journal of nutrition" about gut biota of c-section babies compared to 'natural' vaginal births, I was fascinated by the difference in the gut flora of the babies.
Nemo I was gob smacked by your remark "Who knew being squished through a dirty vag was actually good for you" I'm not a staunch feminist but really this is beyond the pale. It really smacks of contempt!
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Re: Consequences of caesarean birth

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:05 am

The Buddha was born from his mother's side and look at how he turned out.
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Re: Consequences of caesarean birth

Postby greentara » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:19 pm

Padma, The Buddha was born miraculously. Christ's mother was a virgin. All these are wonderful myths.... but they are myths!
Lets admit it was a natural birth and they were born in an ordinary way and come to terms with it. Later they became extraordinary and influenced countless people.... and thats a whole different story.
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