Dharma Wheel

A Buddhist discussion forum on Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism
It is currently Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:04 pm

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:41 pm 
Offline
Former staff member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Posts: 4203
Location: Budapest
In the Jewel Ornament of Liberation (chapter on prajnaparamita, p. 251-255) Gampopa writes,

Quote:
If the meaning of emptiness does not dwell within the mind, we cannot attain liberation by means of the other virtues.
When one is endowed with the meaning of emptiness, there is not a single thing which in not included in this path.

Cultivation of bodhicitta is also included. Visualization of the deity and the recitation of mantras are also said
to be complete when this [the realization of emptiness] exists. Performing fire-offering rituals is also included in this. Even the path—the six perfections—is complete in this. Doing prostrations is also included in this. It is also offering if one has this. Again, if one is endowed with this, it is also the very purification of evil deeds. The guarding of moral ethics and samaya is also included in this meaning. Listening, reflecting, and meditating are also encompassed in this meaning. Torma cakes and daily Dharma rituals are also included in this meaning.

In that case, if all these are included in meditating on only the essence or the mind-as-such, why do there appear teachings on so many graduated methods? It is for the purpose of leading all those sentient beings of little fortune, who are ignorant in the ultimate nature.

_________________
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

"Neither cultivation nor seated meditation — this is the pure Chan of Tathagata."
(Mazu Daoyi, X1321p3b23; tr. Jinhua Jia)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T2076p461b24-26)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:10 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am
Posts: 3043
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-de-zNCjd4 1-6

_________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG_lNuNUVd4


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 12:24 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Southern California
"Visualization of the deity and the recitation of mantras are also said to be complete when this [the realization of emptiness] exists. Performing fire-offering rituals is also included in this. ..."

This is intriguing, but what do you think Gampopa actually meant, in practice? iow, what are the full implications of this quote for the practitioner? It would be interesting to consult other translations and commentaries, but maybe someone has already done this.

This reminds me of the sense that, in some traditions, certain over-arching practices satisfy all practice commitments (e.g, Guru Yoga). But maybe Gompopa is getting at something else.

Maybe we need to ask why Gampopa would say this. Why write that mantra recitation (vocalizing sacred formulae--a physical act) "is complete" in (for lack of a better term) an informed mental attitude?

What's the larger context in the text itself and in the Kagyu tradition?

_________________
Lobsang Damchoi


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Posts: 2808
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA
A good question, when one is seeking to understand what Gampopa is saying, is "what is 'the meaning of emptiness' that dwells within the mind?"

He is not merely talking about a non-affirming negation, lack of existence, but is talking about "only the essence, or the mind-as-such," which is really no mind at all--or, better, beyond what we normally call "the mind."

_________________
May any merit generated by on-line discussion
Be dedicated to the Ultimate Benefit of All Sentient Beings.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:33 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:05 am
Posts: 1302
Location: San Francisco, CA
Gampopa is talking about Mahamudra. I has been said in Dzogchen all kayas are complete. In Mahamudra all methods are complete. So for Kagyu Mahamudra when you do visualization and recitation you are doing Mahamudra, not that you are joining in the two stages, at the end dissolving and that is Mahamudra. Then as the Single White Remedy everything is included in clarity-emptiness aka nonconceptual wisdom.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:41 pm
Posts: 1502
...''If the meaning of emptiness does not dwell within the mind, we cannot attain liberation by means of the other virtues.
When one is endowed with the meaning of emptiness, there is not a single thing which in not included in this path....'

1.Emptiness does not dwell - this is the meaning.
2. Mind is empty of mind - no within or without.
3. We cannot attain. Liberation is complete.
4. Endowment of a meaning of emptiness means self-liberation.
5.There is not a single thing animate or inanimate that is not included in 'pure presence'.
6. There is no path.

And so on.

_________________
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group