Why are monks raising arms in this picture?

Moderator: Tibetan Buddhism moderators

Why are monks raising arms in this picture?

Postby catlady2112 » Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:20 pm

In this photo of Khenpo Gangshar and Trungpa Rinpoche, they are raising their arms. Does anyone know the meaning of what is going on in this photo? And what is on top of the table in the middle?
Attachments
ktcwebpagekhenpogangshar-1.jpg
ktcwebpagekhenpogangshar-1.jpg (73.29 KiB) Viewed 1408 times
catlady2112
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:44 pm

Re: Why are monks raising arms in this picture?

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:56 pm

perhaps they are being mimes trapped inside an invisible samsaric box.
.
.
.
Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.
User avatar
PadmaVonSamba
 
Posts: 2845
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am

Re: Why are monks raising arms in this picture?

Postby Simon E. » Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:04 pm

:smile:
Simon E.
 
Posts: 2543
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Why are monks raising arms in this picture?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:33 pm

Maybe their football team just scored a goal?
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
User avatar
Sherab Dorje
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 9609
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Why are monks raising arms in this picture?

Postby practitioner » Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:21 am

You are all wrong, that is the "raise the roof" mudra
One should do nothing other than benefit sentient beings either directly or indirectly - Shantideva
User avatar
practitioner
 
Posts: 128
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 5:48 pm

Re: Why are monks raising arms in this picture?

Postby kirtu » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:37 pm

catlady2112 wrote:In this photo of Khenpo Gangshar and Trungpa Rinpoche, they are raising their arms. Does anyone know the meaning of what is going on in this photo? And what is on top of the table in the middle?


Unfortunately I cannot hazard a guess. Khenpo Gangshar was one of the great yogis of the past century. My guess is that they are engaged in an offering. However this was photographed, certainly with Khenpo Gangshar's knowledge so more likely it is a kind of "liberation upon seeing" kind of photograph with the photograph being an intentional relic of this. There are other possibilities but they seem illogical (they are doing protector practice - that wouldn't be photographed). They object in the middle appears to be flowers or a torma of some kind.

Since Khenpo Gangshar foresaw the end of Tibetan Buddhism in Tibet and was intent upon the transmission of the Dharma, my guess is the "liberation upon seeing" avenue.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
User avatar
kirtu
Former staff member
 
Posts: 4442
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Why are monks raising arms in this picture?

Postby Simon E. » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:58 pm

So you go from ' unfortunately I cannot hazard a guess '. Which is honest. To hazarding a very unconvincing guess... in two paragraphs.
Simon E.
 
Posts: 2543
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Why are monks raising arms in this picture?

Postby kirtu » Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:41 pm

Simon E. wrote:So you go from ' unfortunately I cannot hazard a guess '. Which is honest. To hazarding a very unconvincing guess... in two paragraphs.


Khenchen Thrangu has likely explained it somewhere as he was one of Khenpo Gangshar's students and has been teaching his approach to Mahamudra. Whatever the explanation, you can safely bet that it is a profound teaching. As an eample, the other picture in the boo is the cover photo which shows Khenpo Gangshar pointing a purba at himself (I had forgotten about this photo). Here's what a blogger at Buddhist Meditation on Tumblr says that Khenchen Thrangu said about that:

There are only two pictures of Khenpo Gangshar and one is on the cover. As Thrangu Rinpoche explained, the Tibetans were upset with this picture because a phurba is held in the hand and pointed to demons and obstacles to eliminate them, but Khenpo Gangshar is pointing the phurba towards his heart. Khenpo Gangshar said he did this because all the obstacles to practice do not lie outside oneself, but lie in one’s heart. So he is pointing the phurba towards himself.


But Wait! Just a bit further down in that blog post it says:
The prophecy of Khenpo Gangshar is well described and it is interesting that the only other picture of Khenpo Gangshar we have is him raising both hands as in a surrender and telling this students that this is the mudra of the union of wisdom and skillful means.


DA DA! Click here to hear Veronica Mars gloat for me! (3:05-3:07, 3:29-3:30)

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
User avatar
kirtu
Former staff member
 
Posts: 4442
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Why are monks raising arms in this picture?

Postby Simon E. » Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:42 am

So you could hazard a guess after all. :smile:

I prefer PadmaVonSamba's explanation.
Simon E.
 
Posts: 2543
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Why are monks raising arms in this picture?

Postby VajraLion » Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:35 pm

When I saw the picture before reading anything else I thought "that's Trungpa Rinpoche" I don't remember exactly, but I think it was in a documentary perhaps Crazy Wisdom where they explain this picture. They said it was taken in order to display an attitude of deference and submission to the invading Chinese.
ཨོཾ Through blood, sweat and tears the solution appears: The pride needs defended by a Lion! ཨོཾ
User avatar
VajraLion
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:46 pm
Location: Allyn, WA

Re: Why are monks raising arms in this picture?

Postby Alfredo » Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:07 am

Because they're Sure of their anti-perspirant!

(cue ad music)
(no longer participating on this board)
Alfredo
 
Posts: 421
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:52 am

Re: Why are monks raising arms in this picture?

Postby kirtu » Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:03 am

VajraLion wrote:When I saw the picture before reading anything else I thought "that's Trungpa Rinpoche" I don't remember exactly, but I think it was in a documentary perhaps Crazy Wisdom where they explain this picture. They said it was taken in order to display an attitude of deference and submission to the invading Chinese.


I think this explanation this unlikely. The explanation I posted above is from a student of Trangu Rinpoche, this is Trangu Rinpoche's explanation (presumably) and Trangu Rinpoche was also a student of Khenpo Gangshar.

Also Trungpa Rinpoche is about 14 in the photo placing the date around 1953/1954. The Chinese invasion and occupation developed in stages but the Tibetans were not subservient not did they generally show deference to the Chinese. The Chinese occupation did not become severely violent until later (how much later I am unclear on). For example they bombed Litang Monastery in 1956. The photo was probably taken in Sechen Monastery which is in Eastern Tibet and might have been exposed to danger early. But I doubt that Khenpo Gangshar would display deference or subservience to the Chinese unless this were a kind of ceremony to mitigate their negativity.

However the full photo shows that the object in the middle is a vase/torma on a tall stool rather then on a shrine.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
User avatar
kirtu
Former staff member
 
Posts: 4442
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Why are monks raising arms in this picture?

Postby VajraLion » Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:04 am

Well I concede defeat! lol, im just looking to assist from an offhand memory which is likely flawed. My apologies for not doing the research.
ཨོཾ Through blood, sweat and tears the solution appears: The pride needs defended by a Lion! ཨོཾ
User avatar
VajraLion
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:46 pm
Location: Allyn, WA

Re: Why are monks raising arms in this picture?

Postby VajraLion » Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:11 am

Actually at 7:30 into the documentary on Trungpa Rinpoche's life "Crazy Wisdom" Khenpo Karma Xidro explains Khenpo Gangshar said "we are not able to fight the communist and we should surrender." He [Karma Xidro] then says "That is the sign for surrender to the Chinese" then the above mentioned image is shown.

So I guess its more like a direct explanation of the specific image rather then speculation. I did do my research! May it be beneficial.
ཨོཾ Through blood, sweat and tears the solution appears: The pride needs defended by a Lion! ཨོཾ
User avatar
VajraLion
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:46 pm
Location: Allyn, WA

Re: Why are monks raising arms in this picture?

Postby Simon E. » Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:49 pm

Far more down to earth and much more like the CTR I knew. :good:
Simon E.
 
Posts: 2543
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Why are monks raising arms in this picture?

Postby catlady2112 » Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:54 pm

kirtu wrote:
catlady2112 wrote:In this photo of Khenpo Gangshar and Trungpa Rinpoche, they are raising their arms. Does anyone know the meaning of what is going on in this photo? And what is on top of the table in the middle?


Unfortunately I cannot hazard a guess. Khenpo Gangshar was one of the great yogis of the past century. My guess is that they are engaged in an offering. However this was photographed, certainly with Khenpo Gangshar's knowledge so more likely it is a kind of "liberation upon seeing" kind of photograph with the photograph being an intentional relic of this. There are other possibilities but they seem illogical (they are doing protector practice - that wouldn't be photographed). They object in the middle appears to be flowers or a torma of some kind.

Since Khenpo Gangshar foresaw the end of Tibetan Buddhism in Tibet and was intent upon the transmission of the Dharma, my guess is the "liberation upon seeing" avenue.

Kirt


I actually like the thought of this being "liberation upon seeing." That sounds more like Khenpo Gangshar's style of Dharma. It also seems like something practical we could all do in the spur of the moment of difficulty -- as a physical way to let things that appear before us, to self-liberate . Sounds like an approachable practice.
catlady2112
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:44 pm

Re: Why are monks raising arms in this picture?

Postby Simon E. » Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:07 pm

VajraLion wrote:Actually at 7:30 into the documentary on Trungpa Rinpoche's life "Crazy Wisdom" Khenpo Karma Xidro explains Khenpo Gangshar said "we are not able to fight the communist and we should surrender." He [Karma Xidro] then says "That is the sign for surrender to the Chinese" then the above mentioned image is shown.

So I guess its more like a direct explanation of the specific image rather then speculation. I did do my research! May it be beneficial.



That sounds more likely. I don't know Khenpo Gangshar ( except of course from many anecdotes from CTR ) but it would be VERY Trungpa Rinpoche and he wasn't much older than he is in that picture when I became his student.
Simon E.
 
Posts: 2543
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am


Return to Mahamudra

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

>