What is "mind" in mahamudra

Moderator: Tibetan Buddhism moderators

What is "mind" in mahamudra

Postby catlady2112 » Wed May 14, 2014 5:47 pm

I have been doing Thrangu Rinpoche's mahamudra meditations on locating and observing "the mind," and examining what appears in the mind. I have 2 questions about the meaning of the word "mind" in this context:

1) Does mind mean "all" of these things below (and possibly more I am not considering).

-The thing/experience I have that is aware of the coming and going of thoughts?
-The thing/experience I have that is still present when there are no thoughts?
-The experience I have of being unaffected by thoughts?

2) Based on the 3 elements I've listed above, are these also considered the "nature" of mind ?

Thanks for your help! (I'm rephrasing an earlier question I didn't ask clearly enough to address my root question)
catlady2112
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:44 pm

Re: What is "mind" in mahamudra

Postby Andrew108 » Wed May 14, 2014 6:35 pm

If someone were to give you a direct answer then this would be a kind of pointing out. I don't think anybody here wants to do that. Perhaps you might want to rephrase your question.? Maybe make a few assertions of your own as to what you think mind is. Then we could discuss those in a more open way.
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.
Andrew108
 
Posts: 1502
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: What is "mind" in mahamudra

Postby Malcolm » Wed May 14, 2014 6:43 pm

catlady2112 wrote:I have been doing Thrangu Rinpoche's mahamudra meditations on locating and observing "the mind," and examining what appears in the mind. I have 2 questions about the meaning of the word "mind" in this context:

1) Does mind mean "all" of these things below (and possibly more I am not considering).

-The thing/experience I have that is aware of the coming and going of thoughts?
-The thing/experience I have that is still present when there are no thoughts?
-The experience I have of being unaffected by thoughts?

2) Based on the 3 elements I've listed above, are these also considered the "nature" of mind ?

Thanks for your help! (I'm rephrasing an earlier question I didn't ask clearly enough to address my root question)


You should ask your teacher.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
User avatar
Malcolm
 
Posts: 12322
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: What is "mind" in mahamudra

Postby conebeckham » Wed May 14, 2014 6:54 pm

These are good questions!

They should be asked of one's teacher, for sure.
May any merit generated by on-line discussion
Be dedicated to the Ultimate Benefit of All Sentient Beings.
User avatar
conebeckham
 
Posts: 2740
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: What is "mind" in mahamudra

Postby catlady2112 » Wed May 14, 2014 7:01 pm

Just to say that of course the first person I would go to is my teacher, but my teacher is very elderly, has many students and is not near me. I thought it's better to ask here than to do nothing.
catlady2112
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:44 pm

Re: What is "mind" in mahamudra

Postby conebeckham » Wed May 14, 2014 7:21 pm

In the Mahamudra tradition, the essential thing is a personal connection, and communication, with one's teacher. The questions you raise are the beginnings of a fruitful discussion, but the discussion has to happen in real time, with a real Mahamudra teacher. That is the tradition, and I strongly feel that there are many good reasons for such a tradition. I urge you to take the time to contact your teacher, and try to connect personally...even if remotely. All the Best!
May any merit generated by on-line discussion
Be dedicated to the Ultimate Benefit of All Sentient Beings.
User avatar
conebeckham
 
Posts: 2740
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: What is "mind" in mahamudra

Postby Astus » Thu May 15, 2014 10:12 am

"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

"Neither cultivation nor seated meditation — this is the pure Chan of Tathagata."
(Mazu Daoyi, X1321p3b23; tr. Jinhua Jia)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T2076p461b24-26)
User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
 
Posts: 4253
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: What is "mind" in mahamudra

Postby tingdzin » Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:44 am

Until you can see your guru, I recommend that you put your whole heart into answering these questions for yourself, not merely intellectually, but as central questions of your life, as if your life depended on it. Keep the questions fresh, and see what happens.
tingdzin
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:19 am

Re: What is "mind" in mahamudra

Postby Crazywisdom » Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:34 pm

Mental event: I will make tea. [grabbing tea]
Mind: [tea in hand]
Thank you for parking my Trojan Horse in your city.
Crazywisdom
 
Posts: 236
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Re: What is "mind" in mahamudra

Postby conebeckham » Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:08 pm

"Tea In Hand" is a mental event, actually....if you're talking about the knowledge of holding one's tea cup, the recognition that one is holding one's teacup....that is a mental event, and not "Mind Itself" or "Ordinary Mind" or "Primordial Awareness" or all those other various terms...

What is it that is aware that one is holding one's teacup?
May any merit generated by on-line discussion
Be dedicated to the Ultimate Benefit of All Sentient Beings.
User avatar
conebeckham
 
Posts: 2740
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: What is "mind" in mahamudra

Postby Crazywisdom » Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:14 pm

conebeckham wrote:"Tea In Hand" is a mental event, actually....if you're talking about the knowledge of holding one's tea cup, the recognition that one is holding one's teacup....that is a mental event, and not "Mind Itself" or "Ordinary Mind" or "Primordial Awareness" or all those other various terms...

What is it that is aware that one is holding one's teacup?


Gongchig II, 3.
"The momentary thought "I will do that"', for example, is mind.

The thought about the methods to accomplish those deeds is a mental event.

However the momentary thought of completing those deeds is mind.

Therefore, mind and mental events spin and arise by turns."


Mahamudra is beyond mind, "Mind" used as a shorthand for Mahamudra notwithstanding.
Thank you for parking my Trojan Horse in your city.
Crazywisdom
 
Posts: 236
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Re: What is "mind" in mahamudra

Postby conebeckham » Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:54 am

Crazywisdom wrote:
Gongchig II, 3.
"The momentary thought "I will do that"', for example, is mind.

The thought about the methods to accomplish those deeds is a mental event.

However the momentary thought of completing those deeds is mind.

Therefore, mind and mental events spin and arise by turns."


Mahamudra is beyond mind, "Mind" used as a shorthand for Mahamudra notwithstanding.


The minute there is cognition by the mental consciousness of sensory data...i.e., the thought of completing something, is not Nature of Mind. It is a mental event, for sure, a mental consciousness...but still a conceptual cognition.....
May any merit generated by on-line discussion
Be dedicated to the Ultimate Benefit of All Sentient Beings.
User avatar
conebeckham
 
Posts: 2740
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: What is "mind" in mahamudra

Postby kirtu » Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:46 am

Crazywisdom wrote:Mental event: I will make tea. [grabbing tea]
Mind: [tea in hand]


But mind is not the nature of mind. I have to reread the passage as I was originally wondering how Jigten Sumgon could have written that but then it became clear. I don't want to mix in Sakya teaching but basically from Shantideva (I think) it is clear that mind itself as an entity does not exist. Nonetheless we have an experience of what we label as mind. Jigten Sumgon is certain to explain this as well.

In your example Jogten Sumgon is explaining mental functioning by the continuous cycling between mental perceptual events and thinking.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
User avatar
kirtu
Former staff member
 
Posts: 4570
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: What is "mind" in mahamudra

Postby Jinzang » Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:27 am

All phenomena are illusory displays of mind.
Mind is no mind--the mind's nature is empty of any entity that is mind
Being empty, it is unceasing and unimpeded,
manifesting as everything whatsoever.
Examining well, may all doubts about the ground be discerned and cut.

If one says, 'This is it,' there is nothing to show.
If one says, 'This is not it,' there is nothing to deny.
The true nature of phenomena,
which transcends conceptual understanding, is unconditioned.
May conviction he gained in the ultimate, perfect truth.


The Aspiration Prayer of Mahamudra
Lamrim, lojong, and mahamudra are the unmistaken path.
Jinzang
 
Posts: 383
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:11 am

Re: What is "mind" in mahamudra

Postby lorem » Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:21 pm

Meditation Guide for Mahamudra.

This is a nice free pdf to work off of. Written well, easy to understand and practice. Of course you do need a teacher to work with.

Some books on pointing out are restricted but to my understanding only so the student does not read the instruction/explanation beforehand and know the responses from a text rather than experience.
For non-things there is non-meditation. Meditation is no meditation! Thus things are non-things whereby meditation is without reference point.
User avatar
lorem
 
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:27 pm


Return to Mahamudra

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron
>