Namdrol wrote:Then of course, in Dzogchen Nyinthig, things are a bit looser and not as uptight as in gsar ma presentations of karmamudra practice.
Really the sarma presentations, originally, weren't uptight either. It's not until the Tibetans picked it up that it became so hush hush and a bodhisattva's practice. They were trying to tie up disparate Indian practices into one monastery. Since when did they stop dropping semen and menstrual blood in the mouth of the initiate? That was tantra. It was intended to be a real down and dirty blood, guts and glory kind of spiritual path. Then, the initiation burst through nicety and convention with a total frak. Then, you get your consort, I'm pretty sure it was not normal sex already. It was trippy sex. The context of the arousal was within the visualization of the deity, and then having been frak in the initiation. It's not easy to recreate those conditions today. There are so many rules and fears. Somebody will call the police, so why would anyone try?
The Dzogchen approach is laid back, but doesn't really have the same four-joys practice either, no? From a Dzogchen standpoint, you could practice something like a neo-tantra, arousal of sexual energy, holdback, and integrate with pranayama, no?