YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

Why such a difference? - Page 7 - Dhamma Wheel

Why such a difference?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
User avatar
daverupa
Posts: 5980
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: Why such a difference?

Postby daverupa » Mon May 16, 2011 10:03 am


User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Why such a difference?

Postby retrofuturist » Mon May 16, 2011 10:06 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
Dan74
Posts: 3012
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: Why such a difference?

Postby Dan74 » Mon May 16, 2011 10:20 am

Parable of the raft?
_/|\_

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Why such a difference?

Postby retrofuturist » Mon May 16, 2011 10:24 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
Dan74
Posts: 3012
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: Why such a difference?

Postby Dan74 » Mon May 16, 2011 10:33 am

Well I thought we were talking about the notion of the expedient, retro, and suddenly you are onto something else now.

This something else is resting on the assumption that in Mahayana we ignore the Pali suttas and follow poetry. In fact, many Mahayana followers study the Pali suttas. My teacher has often spoken of Pali teachings on the Eightfold Noble Path, mindfulness, sila samadhi and panna, etc.

Besides Mahayana sutras include the teachings of the Pali suttas in them, and Geoff has given us a snippet of this in his long posts that few seem to have bothered to look into. People are welcome to hold on to their prejudices if they wish, but I suspect we are better served by pouring that energy into our practice rather than spreading them around.
_/|\_

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Why such a difference?

Postby retrofuturist » Mon May 16, 2011 10:40 am

Greetings Dan,

As far as I can see, no one is diminishing Mahayana.... only saying that buddha-nature clearly isn't buddha-vacana.

So for you to call it one of the Buddha's teachings is erroneous from a Theravada point of view.... rather, it's from "discourses that are literary works — the works of poets, elegant in sound, elegant in rhetoric, the work of outsiders, words of disciples"

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
Dan74
Posts: 3012
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: Why such a difference?

Postby Dan74 » Mon May 16, 2011 10:53 am

If it were the work of Sariputta or Moggallana, would that be "the work of outsiders"? What confidence do you have that the words of Prajnaparamita Sutras is work of outsiders?

How can you be even totally sure that it is not the Buddha's work? Are you so certain of your conception what the Buddha is and isn't?

There are many assumptions being made here...
_/|\_

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Why such a difference?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon May 16, 2011 11:00 am


User avatar
Dan74
Posts: 3012
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: Why such a difference?

Postby Dan74 » Mon May 16, 2011 11:36 am

It may well have been written down later, it may have been passed down orally before then. Or it may be the work of Full Enlightened Ones who were no different from the Buddha and hence Buddhavacana.

In any case, labeling it "the work of outsiders" is really sectarianism at its most extreme, in my view (nothing personal here, I am a fan of retro in many ways, just don't agree here).
_/|\_

nobody12345
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:05 am

Re: Why such a difference?

Postby nobody12345 » Mon May 16, 2011 11:50 am

Even though commentators/interpreters are wonderful, they cannot replace the Buddha and his direct teachings.
Dhamma is already perfect as it is.
It's doesn't need to be expanded.
Metta.

User avatar
daverupa
Posts: 5980
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: Why such a difference?

Postby daverupa » Mon May 16, 2011 11:51 am


User avatar
christopher:::
Posts: 1326
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:56 am

Re: Why such a difference?

Postby christopher::: » Mon May 16, 2011 12:28 pm

"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

User avatar
Dan74
Posts: 3012
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: Why such a difference?

Postby Dan74 » Mon May 16, 2011 12:49 pm

_/|\_

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Why such a difference?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon May 16, 2011 2:38 pm


User avatar
Dan74
Posts: 3012
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: Why such a difference?

Postby Dan74 » Mon May 16, 2011 2:50 pm

While I don't necessarily agree with Namdrol's quote above either, I think yours is a reasonable stance for a Theravadin to take. :smile:

And by the way, thank you for taking it here. :anjali:
_/|\_

User avatar
daverupa
Posts: 5980
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: Why such a difference?

Postby daverupa » Mon May 16, 2011 7:59 pm


User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Why such a difference?

Postby retrofuturist » Mon May 16, 2011 10:48 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
christopher:::
Posts: 1326
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:56 am

Re: Why such a difference?

Postby christopher::: » Mon May 16, 2011 11:33 pm

"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Why such a difference?

Postby retrofuturist » Tue May 17, 2011 12:50 am

Greetings,

By not having a doctrine of buddha-nature, Theravada avoids the thickets of eternalistic views exemplified in topics such as this one at Dharma Wheel.

Tathagatagarbha and Eternity
http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=4042

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
Dan74
Posts: 3012
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: Why such a difference?

Postby Dan74 » Tue May 17, 2011 12:57 am

No matter the doctrine, no matter the teaching we will always find "things" to get stuck on, to trip up on, to fight over and to totally totally misunderstand.

That's where true teachers are important, to use it as a skill in means, rather than a doctrine.
_/|\_


Return to “General Theravāda discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 51 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine