Dharma Wheel

I would write to FMO directly rather than post here. A lot of what came up about the Taego Order on Dharma Wheel was speculation and assumption, with no one bothering to check directly.

I am aware of them, but they ordain with bodhisattva precepts. It's essentially a lay-minister ordination. As I understand it, that is incorrect, since they offer ordination as a lay priest for men and women. The International Order of Buddhist Ministers offers a lay minister ordination. Interestin...

Are you going to affect the culture in Taego Haemin? Will you tell your sensei & the rest that gay people are equally part of society and lobby for women to be treated equally? Is everyone else doing this in his sect. The only way Buddhism will change is if we change it. We've had that conversa...

Haemin, I still find your position rather dubious. You say your only point is that discrimination is not unique to the Taego Order. Does that excuse it in your opinion? Please refer to my previous post in this thread in which I said I am not defending these policies. Therefore, I am not excusing th...

These past few days I've tried to think of a truly inclusive ordination option for bhikshu and bhikshuni, but I can't come up with one. I don't think it exists. Haemin, I am certain that you are aware of the Five Mountain Order of Zen. It's a very inclusive Order that is very modern and American, y...

...how do you resolve this tension, short of joining the Order of Interbeing (to pick but one)? Just a quick note: I checked the Deer Park Monastery's website. In order to ordain in the Order of Interbeing you cannot have an "incurable disease or serious medical condition" (they even requ...

Based on what do you assert this? I've seen no such problems as this. I'm a celibate monk and I don't feel jealous toward my non-celibate brothers and sisters in my own order or any other. I assume you know about the incident when the Jogye Order monks took back temples by force from the married cl...

Most monks I know live very comfortable lifestyles and are free from most ordinary worries in life (such as food, shelter and clothing). The Buddha taught that monastics should be free from material concerns and thus need the Four Requisites provided for them: food, clothing, medicine and shelter. ...

Most temples in Japan are commercial enterprises that exist more or less only to turn a profit by providing archaic rituals that Japanese people feel culturally obliged to maintain and pay a lot of money for. Yes, funeral services in Japan are expensive, but the belief that Japanese priests are wea...

I'm also a bit confused by your comments thus far but I do appreciate your attempts to clarify. Considering how controversial the Taego Order is, trying to justify one's involvement with them and defending their policies must be a very daunting and lonely task. I cannot stress enough that, as I see...

Hi Haemin, Thank you for your replies so far. I'm still struggling a bit to understand your position properly, and I have reason to think I'm not the only one. So I have one more clarification question for you. On one side, you seem to agree with most of the criticisms made by jrzen and others rega...

For centuries throughout the Buddhist world, the official pratimoksha has not been the list of rules actually observed by the sangha. Each tradition, and sometimes individual monasteries, have had their own rules that have actually governed monastic behavior. I've heard this from monks and nuns fro...

For centuries throughout the Buddhist world, the official pratimoksha has not been the list of rules actually observed by the sangha. It was and still is in those monasteries where Vinaya is taken seriously. There are differences in monastic lineages but if monks (or nuns) aren't keeping the princi...

It isn't a parajika because male Taego clergy aren't required to take a vow of celibacy to begin with. It's only a parajika if you take a vow of celibacy and then break it. Of course, more traditional orders would most likely not recognize non-celibate Taego clergy as bhikkhu. It is more than just ...

Haemin, It is interesting that you put so much time, energy, and effort into excusing discriminatory policies. Are you putting as much energy into having these policies reversed? I suspect not. The story in the Vinaya about the man acting inappropriately was an isolated incident that allegedly over...

Jikan: I find that the kinds of discrimination that characterize Asian Buddhism are found in North America and Europe in a variety of orders. For example, there is no full ordination for women in the Theravada and Tibetan traditions, regardless of where one lives. Homosexuals are denied ordination i...

Haemin, It is interesting that you put so much time, energy, and effort into excusing discriminatory policies. Are you putting as much energy into having these policies reversed? I suspect not. The story in the Vinaya about the man acting inappropriately was an isolated incident that allegedly over...

This is incorrect. I've just confirmed this with the Bishop, Venerable Dr. Jongmae Kenneth Park. The Taego and Jogye orders follow the same pratimoksa (Caturvagga Vinaya of the Dharmaguptaka--which is in use in the Chinese and Vietnamese traditions as well). However, celibacy is optional for men in...

I am a monk in the Taego Order. I actually did my bhikshu ordination at a Vietnamese temple before staying in S. Korea and Nepal over a two year period (the abbot was my classmate in grad school and offered to arrange the ordination for me prior to going overseas), so I have a vow of celibacy. I joi...

But the Taego Order ordains only with the bodhisattva precepts and not the pratimoksa, so it's much like Japanese schools, except that they call them "married monks" to show the difference between "celibate monks" of the Jogye Order who take the full monastic precepts. This is i...