Search found 46 matches

by Center Channel
Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:05 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Dzogchenpa by Accident?
Replies: 225
Views: 36521

Re: Dzogchenpa by Accident?

Lhug-Pa wrote:Perhaps looking at the difference between gZhi and Kunzhi (Alaya, not necessarily Alaya-Vijnana/Kunzhi-Namshe), could help to clarify.

I made it clear I am talking strictly about Madhyamaka.
by Center Channel
Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:46 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Dzogchenpa by Accident?
Replies: 225
Views: 36521

Re: Dzogchenpa by Accident?

Virgo wrote: So how is it caused?

Kevin

Do a 7-point Prasangika analyses or similar.

Or look at one that has already been done in the past.

:techproblem:

So that makes 5 times now repeating myself.

Emptiness is empty. Emptiness is not non-empty.
by Center Channel
Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:42 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Dzogchenpa by Accident?
Replies: 225
Views: 36521

Re: Dzogchenpa by Accident?

Virgo wrote:
Center Channel wrote: Emptiness is conditioned. Period.
So emptiness is a thing?

Kevin

No its not a thing.

Jesus fracking christ.
by Center Channel
Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:17 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Dzogchenpa by Accident?
Replies: 225
Views: 36521

Re: Dzogchenpa by Accident?

Hmm, repeatedley repeating that emptiness has been analyzed by 7-point analysis as being conditioned is backpedaling? I even PM'ed you the same thing 3 hours ago: Are you saying than in the Indo-Tibetan tradition, emptiness itself was never analyzed through a 7 point analyses or similar? So that mak...
by Center Channel
Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:21 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Dzogchenpa by Accident?
Replies: 225
Views: 36521

Re: Dzogchenpa by Accident?

You don't understand cessation or annhilationism. Annhilationism is an absence of causes, by definition. emptiness is not an object Of course emptiness is not a object. But this fact has not stopped any of the Indo-Tibetan Madhyamikas from treating emptiness as an object and running it through a 7 ...
by Center Channel
Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:02 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Dzogchenpa by Accident?
Replies: 225
Views: 36521

Re: Dzogchenpa by Accident?

deff wrote:you say nothing is uncaused, but previously said buddhahood is uncaused
Please don't make up stuff.
by Center Channel
Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:46 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Dzogchenpa by Accident?
Replies: 225
Views: 36521

Re: Dzogchenpa by Accident?

Namdrol wrote: You are really missing the point of Madhyamaka, CC. BUt I have to go out for the day and cannot respond in more detail.

N

I can wait. :thumbsup:

I'm not going to reply any more until Namdrol does.
by Center Channel
Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:43 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Dzogchenpa by Accident?
Replies: 225
Views: 36521

Re: Dzogchenpa by Accident?

Cessation is an absence of causes, by definition. N Thats sounds more like nihilism/annhiliationism than cessation. If not, at least have the humility to admit when you're wrong. When I'm shown to be wrong, I will. All I am saying is that there is nothing that is uncaused. And you certainly can tre...
by Center Channel
Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:10 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Dzogchenpa by Accident?
Replies: 225
Views: 36521

Re: Dzogchenpa by Accident?

Namdrol wrote: Space and cessation are not caused

Of course cessation is caused.
by Center Channel
Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:56 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Dzogchenpa by Accident?
Replies: 225
Views: 36521

Re: Dzogchenpa by Accident?

Lhug-Pa wrote:So no one here is saying that anything is uncaused.

What was this then?

Namdrol wrote:
Space and cessation are not caused
by Center Channel
Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:48 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Dzogchenpa by Accident?
Replies: 225
Views: 36521

Re: Dzogchenpa by Accident?

Namdrol wrote: Space and cessation are not caused
If you are positing something that is uncaused/nonconditioned permanent, as you do here, you really lose Madhyamaka view IMO
by Center Channel
Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:38 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Dzogchenpa by Accident?
Replies: 225
Views: 36521

Re: Dzogchenpa by Accident?

Namdrol wrote: Emptiness isn't a thing, it is freedom from all extremes, hence it cannot be caused, destroyed, etc.
Sure I agree with all that. :thumbsup:

But do you agree with this statement from Madhayamaka POV? :

"There is nothing that is not caused."
by Center Channel
Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:33 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Dzogchenpa by Accident?
Replies: 225
Views: 36521

Re: Dzogchenpa by Accident?

Namdrol wrote: Emptiness is not caused.

N

There is nothing that is not caused.
by Center Channel
Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:25 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Dzogchenpa by Accident?
Replies: 225
Views: 36521

Re: Dzogchenpa by Accident?

Dechen Norbu wrote:You have some deep misunderstandings there! :shock: Right now I must leave in a hurry, but I'm sure someone will correct you. If not, I'll do it when I come back.
The misunderstandings are on your part my friend. :rolleye:

I have studied Madhyamaka in depth.
by Center Channel
Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:09 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Dzogchenpa by Accident?
Replies: 225
Views: 36521

Re: Dzogchenpa by Accident?

CC, That's a very awkward statement. Emptiness being caused... really man, what are you thinking? In Madhyamaka, EVERYTHING is caused......without exception. Are you telling me that dependent origination (emptiness) is not caused? How did you become a mod? Shall I recommend some non-Gelug Madhyamak...
by Center Channel
Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:59 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Dzogchenpa by Accident?
Replies: 225
Views: 36521

Re: Dzogchenpa by Accident?

No, then I am afraid we have to go to the actual teachings and no yana say that Buddhahood is created. /magnus Only in Dzogchen is Buddhahood is self-liberation. But in every other teaching Buddhahood is created. Thats the whole point of unlimited aspiration to help sentient beings. Even Buddhas ar...
by Center Channel
Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:58 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Dzogchenpa by Accident?
Replies: 225
Views: 36521

Re: Dzogchenpa by Accident?

Your nature escapes all distinctions... but for conventional purposes of communicating with one another; awareness, or consciousness, or innate cognizance, uncontrived wakefulness, (whatever label you wish to use) all serve to point to one's nature. Maybe for you. :shrug: Frankly using the term &qu...
by Center Channel
Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:21 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Dzogchenpa by Accident?
Replies: 225
Views: 36521

Re: Dzogchenpa by Accident?

Silent Bob wrote: Have you ever even read EPK, Cortland Dahl, Tyler Dewar or Tony Duff's work??? Your remark is so far over the top it doesn't deserve to be taken seriously.
I said most, not all.

Chill.
by Center Channel
Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:18 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Dzogchenpa by Accident?
Replies: 225
Views: 36521

Re: Dzogchenpa by Accident?

Nangwa wrote: I dont care if it is.
I agree. :thumbsup:


Dzogchen comes directly from divine light bodies.
by Center Channel
Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:10 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Dzogchenpa by Accident?
Replies: 225
Views: 36521

Re: Dzogchenpa by Accident?

Everyone's nature is the inseperability of clarity (i.e. mirror-like) and emptiness (i.e. can't point to the mirror with your finger). By recognizing one's nature, one gains knowledge (rigpa). Thus there is NO place for the word "awareness" at all Ka dag certainly does not translate to awa...

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